ADHd2 s04e08: tabletopsyturvy
Matt: We're not live streaming too, are we?
Matt: No.
Matt: No?
Alison: Everybody is seeing this.
Alison: It's actually, I, okay, Matt.
Alison: Everybody dance.
Alison: Yes.
Alison: I wanted to surprise you.
Alison: What a surprise.
Alison: Right now, this is being broadcast onto a ginormous screen in the middle.
Matt: In Times Square.
Alison: No, Dubai.
Alison: I couldn't afford Times Square.
Matt: Oh, Dubai.
Matt: You couldn't afford Times Square.
Matt: You could afford Dubai.
Alison: So we settled for Dubai.
Matt: Anyway.
Alison: Hi, Allison.
Alison: Hi, Matt.
Alison: How are you doing?
Alison: Welcome, everybody.
Alison: Welcome to the final episode of ADHD 20, Season 4, 2025, even though you're going to get this
Alison: in 2026.
Matt: Yeah, probably.
Matt: Probably.
Matt: Knowing us.
Matt: What is ADHD 20, though?
Alison: Oh, my gosh.
Alison: I'm so happy that you asked.
Alison: It is a podcast that celebrates the intersection of ADHD.
Alison: And TTRPGs.
Alison: Still getting tongue-tied after all these years.
Alison: Still can't get it out of my mouth.
Matt: I need to show off my pickle pin.
Matt: Because Lindsay and I just went to the Heinz Museum in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,
Matt: where we are kind of staying en route to Mama's for Christmas time.
Matt: and it was great it's a great museum i almost got you a present there i will be getting you
Matt: some little knickknack or something but okay um i it was a i'll go ahead and tell you it was a
Matt: pittsburgh tarot and i was like that's so weird but she doesn't care about pittsburgh why would
Alison: she want a tarot deck based on i don't not care about pittsburgh but i yeah i don't i don't know
Alison: I don't have no attachment.
Alison: I have no emotional attachment.
Alison: I also realized today when I got deck number,
Alison: I've ordered two terror decks are becoming my new dice.
Alison: So I've got to,
Alison: I've got the divination RPG here.
Alison: We'll link it back into.
Alison: So I received that today.
Alison: An absolutely stunning deck.
Alison: I will be happy to show off and play with you in the very near future.
Alison: I hope.
Alison: And then I also,
Alison: after looking all year,
Alison: I really wanted like a foiled holographic.
Alison: deck. And I don't actually own a
Alison: Rider Smith weight deck, so I found a beautiful
Alison: magenta foiled. No.
Alison: Yeah. Wow. I bet that's beautiful.
Alison: It's either dice or decks for me. Yeah.
Alison: Dice or decks. I'm a crow. Dice or decks,
Alison: right? Dice, decks, or decks. Dice, decks, or decks.
Alison: There's my theme, I hope, of 2026. You heard it here
Alison: first. Dice, decks, decks. Let's go.
Alison: Your lips to Satan's ear.
Alison: Satan's ears.
Alison: Well, thank you for thinking of me at the Heinz Museum.
Alison: What else?
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: At the Heinz Museum.
Alison: It's not a museum where you go to eat ketchup.
Matt: No.
Matt: Though I'm sure you, I mean, you could buy some.
Matt: You could certainly, and they did have a little cafe.
Matt: It did have the history of Heinz ketchup and Heinz period.
Matt: It's not just ketchup, of course.
Matt: Okay.
Matt: Actually, do you know what the very first product that H.J. Hines came out with?
Alison: Malt vinegar.
Matt: Kind of close, actually.
Matt: His mother's recipe for horseradish.
Matt: Oh, yum.
Alison: Just a condiment king.
Matt: He was a condiment king.
Alison: I just love that you and Linz are just making the most out of being in Pittsburgh and getting around by day and then creating fun, weird stuff with me by night.
Matt: It's a wacky museum.
Matt: It does have the Mr. Rogers neighborhood in it.
Matt: It does have this whole two floors of sports shit that we just didn't.
Alison: So it's just like...
Matt: It's everything.
Alison: Everything.
Alison: It's everything.
Alison: It's like us.
Alison: It's not any one thing.
Alison: It's a combination.
Matt: It's very ADHD friendly, I think.
Alison: So I'm now going to make a sports analogy since you've sort of segued us.
Alison: We find ourselves here.
Alison: If the year 2025 or any given year, but we're going to talk this year, was a sports ball game, we are officially in the period of the game known as garbage time.
Alison: Where like, if you can get a Hail Mary out, like you could save the game, but it's probably not going to happen.
Alison: The score is probably the score.
Alison: And I feel like, you know, in this, the last couple of weeks.
Matt: It's too late for us.
Alison: It's too late.
Alison: too late you know we're we're we have these you know and so garbage time you know like it could
Alison: be to advantage or not like garbage time could be you know like you already won the the game the
Alison: year so so well that like it doesn't matter go ahead and put the third string in um garbage time
Alison: could you know mean the opposite for you they've already won the game that you know okay okay um or
Alison: like i said there is always the chance for a hail mary there's always there i'm i'm one of those
Alison: I always believe there's a chance.
Alison: Like it is going to come down to the buzzer.
Matt: Okay.
Alison: But yeah, we, you know, we were like, okay, at the beginning of the year, we're like, we
Alison: are going to go into double digits for a number of episodes.
Alison: Welcome to episode number eight produced here in Garbage Time.
Alison: But you know what?
Alison: They've been eight great episodes.
Alison: We have had some.
Alison: They have been eight great episodes though.
Alison: Nominal guests this year.
Alison: I think the topics that we have talked about have been, you know, bitterly honest.
Alison: They have helped us.
Alison: Yes.
Alison: Hopefully helped you or someone that you love.
Alison: Yes.
Alison: And now it's just about making it to the finish line, wherein we get to spend a whole week in stretchy pants eating cheese.
Alison: My favorite week of the year, bread and cheese week.
Alison: That's not a sports analogy.
Alison: That's just my life.
Matt: Yes, we did not hit that goal.
Matt: But we are going to talk about the goals that we did hit, and there were plenty.
Matt: And yes, as you mentioned, some of them were monumental for us, at least.
Matt: Okay.
Matt: So where should we start?
Alison: So the question I kind of posed to you when we started thinking, like, what do we want to do?
Alison: Because here's the thing.
Alison: We hit a big monumental number for any podcast, but especially a podcast that started in the pandemic by two people with ADHD.
Alison: We hit a big juicy number.
Alison: We did.
Alison: Which is 50.
Alison: 50 years old.
Alison: Our podcast is kick.
Matt: That is still 50.
Alison: Right?
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: 50.
Matt: Just doesn't even seem possible.
Matt: It doesn't even seem possible to me.
Matt: It really doesn't.
Alison: I was kind of like, okay, we don't need another like retrospective episode.
Alison: If you want to go back to the 50th episode, we asked a lot about of like a lot of ADHD 20 specific questions.
Alison: We did.
Alison: Which was so fun.
Alison: We were joined by our partners in crime.
Alison: I almost said Bud and Fitz.
Alison: Evan and Fitz to help us reflect back.
Alison: So we're not going to like go back through all the episodes of ADHD 20.
Alison: But the question that I posed to Maddie was like, what's something?
Alison: And we can do this for each other.
Alison: We can do this for ourselves.
Alison: What is something from this year, not necessarily specific to the podcast, though it can also be, that you're proud of?
Matt: Yeah, I loved this.
Alison: Really proud of.
Alison: I think, you know.
Alison: I loved this.
Alison: We spend a lot of time talking about our problems and sharing them with all of you.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: And it's easy to focus on those things sometimes.
Alison: But I just thought it might be lovely to focus on not necessarily the moments, but like the arcs when things, because it was never just one moment.
Alison: It was always like what I've done has led me to this point.
Alison: I don't know.
Alison: Yes.
Alison: I'm waxing philosophic now.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Matt: Mm-hmm.
Alison: So do you have a moment, a thing, an accomplishment, something from this year?
Alison: Are you ready with an answer to this question, Matthew?
Matt: I do.
Matt: I do have an answer.
Alison: Ooh.
Matt: Are you ready for an answer?
Alison: I'm ready for your answer.
Matt: So we're going to get into this subject a little bit more later in this podcast.
Matt: But this year, the Pocket Dimension, which is our umbrella company, the company that in this year has housed both the Pocket Dimension Live, which is a weekly live stream.
Matt: We've had a lot of fun.
Matt: We had the aforementioned Matthew Munitz.
Matt: We've had guest stars and played games and talked about role-playing drama and excitement.
Matt: And it's also really fun to see our love of this new game, Daggerheart, unfold.
Matt: And that is all kind of captured in this weekly, hour-long gathering of four friends.
Matt: The Pocket Dimension was kind of started because of this podcast, though, in that you and I had started this podcast.
Matt: and we just kind of wanted to have a home.
Matt: And then we wanted to include Evan and Fitz,
Matt: Bud and Herb, Bud and Fitz.
Matt: Bud and Fitz.
Matt: And we wanted to kind of include them too.
Matt: So in our trying to learn about how to be YouTubers,
Matt: we said, well, okay, this makes sense.
Matt: The pocket dimension is going to be this umbrella thing
Matt: and it's going to have two podcasts
Matt: and then this live stream
Matt: and anything else that we want to create.
Matt: It became very clear very quickly that YouTube, it is an algorithmic force to be reckoned with.
Matt: And we learned that there is sort of a game to play, right?
Matt: Long story short, we had to make some very hard decisions on how to spend our time doing things that we want to do the most and how best to serve this business.
Matt: I mean, it is a business, right?
Matt: So there are rules to how that works.
Matt: Anyway, I am very proud of myself.
Matt: There was a time where we had to make these very difficult decisions internally.
Matt: And I took it upon myself to kind of accept the role of mediator, of analyzer,
Matt: and see what all the members of the pocket dimension, myself included, really wanted the
Matt: future to be. I am proud of how I handled the situation, which was both difficult at times,
Matt: but also meaningful. And I am never going to be the leader that walks in, takes over. I don't know
Matt: that I have that in me as much, but I am going to be someone who sees a job that needs to get done
Matt: and the people that are doing those jobs as empathetically as possible. I know that working
Matt: at a business, it's not just decisions. It's how the people that need to make those decisions are
Matt: feeling. To me, anyway. So that's one thing that I'm proud of is just kind of accepting that things
Matt: had to change. That's hard, right? I think for all of us, change is difficult. Luckily, I think
Matt: we've worked it out so that the dream has not changed, like the umbrella company,
Matt: the pocket dimension has not changed. And we're going to be able to focus a little bit more
Matt: heavily on these other projects at the same time, which I think will just make so much more sense.
Matt: But yeah, it was tough. It was tough in that way. Tough to make decisions, tough to have to be a
Matt: part of them, tough to have that RISD kick in over every little thing that is uncomfortable
Matt: or borders on the emotional. So yeah, I think that's the thing I'm proud of.
Alison: I have two things for you that I'm proud of.
Matt: Okay.
Alison: One of them, Hive Mind is alive and well today, is exactly everything that you just shared. And I was already going to come and tell you how proud I was of you for that before you said anything.
Matt: So wait, I was supposed to tell you what I was proud of you for? And then I started talking about something that I was proud of myself?
Alison: No, no, no, no, no, no. You were supposed to talk about what you were proud of about you. And now I'm going to tell you what I'm proud of about you. And then I'm going to say what I'm proud of
Alison: Yeah. So what I was planning on coming here and telling you that I was proud of without telling you that I was going to tell you that I was proud of this was you call it mediator.
Alison: I call it leadership. And you are so it's so funny because last year, 2020, what year is this?
Alison: This is 2025 and 2024. When Daggerheart first came into our lives, it was decided that I was going to be the GM for a change and that our our forever GM was going to was going to take a much, much, much deserved, needed.
Alison: We don't have to deserve rest, but you did deserve one break.
Alison: And I was just going to dabble.
Alison: I was just going to do it for like a minute.
Alison: We didn't know anything about it.
Alison: You were just going to, you know, taste it and see.
Alison: See what all the fuss was about, about GMing.
Alison: And Matt in that time created a beautiful character named Winrieth Moondreamer.
Alison: And one of the big like cornerstones of Daggerheart that we all love so much is that you have something called experiences.
Alison: And it's very silly because you create these experiences kind of out of the box and then you get to play with them in the world.
Alison: And as you continue to play, you add more experiences that may be based in the game to that point.
Alison: But out of the box, Matt came up as the reluctant leader as Wynn.
Matt: That's what Wynn was.
Alison: That's what Wynn was.
Alison: And it's been so much fun for the past year and a half to actually watch because as we've talked about many, many, many times before, there's some of us and every one of our characters.
Alison: So it was so fun for Matt to start out playing someone that was the reluctant leader and then begin to embody that himself, IRL.
Alison: And you have, you have risen, you have risen and superseded any expectation that you or any of us may have had on you.
Alison: Because at the end of the day, we are all desperate to make this our full-time job and it just isn't yet for any of us.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: So your willingness to continue to show up for yourself and all of us and our entire community in the way that you do.
Alison: And the whole time fighting me on the word leader, by the way, peek behind the curtain, everybody.
Alison: I still can't say it.
Alison: I still can't say it.
Alison: You've definitely called yourself a mediator.
Alison: But a good leader, yes, they do have to make snap and command decisions and enforce them and get everybody to work together and be deeply empathetic and, and, and, and, and.
Alison: They also have to have their eyes on a million different possible outcomes.
Alison: You know, it's like we're watching the timelines fly by and we're trying to pick up the threads and put them all together.
Alison: And that is something you were able to do and say to all of us and be like, okay, but like consider the implication of this or like, you know, just like kind of like constantly like walk us all through specifically me.
Alison: But I know you did this with everybody too.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: And that's a leader, my dude.
Alison: That is what a leader effing does.
Alison: And you did that.
Alison: Thank you.
Alison: And I am exceedingly proud of you.
Alison: And now that I've talked that long, the other one that I had for you, it's going to come back at some point.
Alison: But the other one flew out of my head.
Matt: Oh.
Alison: I was like, I have two big things that Matt did this year that I'm really, oh, I know what it was.
Alison: Okay, it already came back.
Alison: Oh, God.
Alison: ADHD is such a wild ride, you guys.
Alison: So as long as I have known Matt, I'm going to tell on him a little bit here.
Alison: Matt has struggled with delegation.
Alison: Matt has struggled with putting things down and taking a rest and not we, you know, episode that we just released.
Alison: It was about the forceful push.
Alison: And that is the king of like, no, I am going to I'm going to keep driving long past the point of any level of sense.
Alison: I know how hard it is for you to lay things down for a minute.
Alison: And the fact that coming back from Gen Con, you said, I need to take a step back from this thing.
Alison: I love this thing so much and I'm absolutely coming back to it.
Alison: But I need a break.
Alison: I need to recalibrate and remember my why.
Alison: That's so hard.
Alison: And you did it beautifully.
Matt: I was scared.
Matt: I was scared.
Matt: I was very, I was not sure.
Matt: But at the same time, I was at the same time I was.
Alison: So I don't know that you got kudos for that this year.
Alison: That like the, how hard it is to lay down something you love.
Alison: And first of all, trust someone else to run with the story and not fuck it up.
Alison: That's hard.
Matt: Yeah, yes, yes.
Matt: Literally, you took the helm.
Matt: This is a co-game master situation where I tagged you in.
Matt: I handed you the book and said,
Alison: Have fun.
Alison: See, now I'm playing.
Alison: Now I'm a player.
Alison: I'm going to fuck your shit up.
Alison: Oh, no.
Alison: And he does.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: In all the best ways.
Alison: I do.
Alison: But for anybody who has ever,
Alison: as much as they've loved something needed to delegate,
Alison: needed to take a step back, needed to take a break,
Alison: knows that that is when as much love and time and passion
Alison: goes into something as Matt has poured into being a game master,
Alison: that is hard.
Matt: So I'm proud of you.
Matt: I want to say real quick, it's not, you know, it was an experiment.
Matt: The experiment is still happening.
Matt: But I will say that almost immediately,
Matt: what they say about taking a break from something
Matt: and letting, you know, letting things simmer and cook 100% correct.
Matt: I mean, I knew that about other things, but like it also applies to being a gamer.
Matt: Sometimes you just need to take a break and then kind of analyze stuff.
Matt: I've never watched more actual play than I have in my entire career.
Matt: And I did start a home game in person that we meet occasionally.
Matt: And I feel like every single thing that I have wanted to learn over the last five-ish years suddenly start clicking in an easier, better way.
Matt: So it actually works.
Alison: You've heard it here first.
Alison: Just take a break.
Alison: Take a fucking break, everybody.
Alison: Treat yourself.
Alison: Just take a break.
Alison: Stop pushing.
Alison: Knock it off with a forceful push.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: It's hard, but worth it.
Matt: Thank you for those things.
Matt: I accept.
Matt: uh i'm also proud of those things myself now what are you proud about yourself this is hard
Alison: it's so easy to talk about what i'm proud of with you it's hard to to say it about yourself
Alison: i am somebody that has spent her entire life being married to expectations you know like i get a
Alison: picture in my head a fantasy i'm not i'm not a roll with the punches girly i'm not and i know
Alison: this about myself. And so I came into this year really like big goals and I had plans. I knew how
Alison: I was going to, you know, like, and a lot of them just blew the fuck up in my face. Some by my own
Alison: hand, some by other circumstances. And this year I have rolled with the punches more than I ever have
Alison: before and accepted the gifts that the universe is like desperately trying to bestow on me. But
Alison: this. I want this thing in this way, in this manner, on this timeline. And if it's not that,
Alison: I don't want anything. I don't want it. I've spent my life basically shooting myself in the foot,
Alison: cutting my nose off to spite my face. Yeah. And so, you know, I will be honest with everybody
Alison: listening that I came into this year, 2025, with the goal of by the end of the year,
Alison: the pocket dimension being my full-time job, the thing that I'm making money from and nothing else.
Alison: And I have failed spectacularly at that.
Alison: However, comma, at the cost of what?
Alison: At the cost of other moments of greatness that have been richly inspirational and meaningful
Alison: and quite frankly necessary to my own leveling up and evolution.
Alison: So the biggest thing was is that I transitioned into a more full-time role with one of my longest
Alison: term freelance clients this year.
Alison: At the worst time to possibly do it, Matt and I joked a couple of episodes back about it being literally I'm getting acclimated in my new job as we're prepping and going to Gen Con.
Alison: Like my like second full week on the job was the week we were at Gen Con, which is not the way to do it.
Alison: And I will never do it that way again.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: But it has been rewarding.
Alison: I have really I've stepped back into a full time social media manager role and I had stepped away from social media management for the past several years.
Alison: And I was so scared of getting back into it and what that would mean.
Alison: And first of all, it's a very different ballgame now than last time I did it.
Alison: But I think this is the first time in my life, and I think I can attribute this to the pocket dimension, to our community, and to this very podcast that I'm in my big girl job, and I don't feel imposter syndrome.
Alison: So for everybody listening that has debilitating, crippling, like borderline, I can't function because of my imposter syndrome.
Alison: I should be your poster child that if I can conquer it.
Alison: And that doesn't mean like there will always be spaces in which I will look around and feel inferior, you know.
Alison: But like this is one of the first jobs that I've been like, no, no, I deserve to be doing this.
Alison: And the thing is, is that it's felt very easy.
Alison: Like it has come, I mean, literally this job was handed to me.
Alison: And I remember having this moment of like looking around and being like, this is a job people would love to have that somebody just, I didn't even have to, I almost said audition.
Alison: I didn't even have to apply, you know, like it was like, Alison, do you want to do this?
Alison: Yes or no.
Alison: And I've heard tale that that happens and I'd never experienced it.
Alison: And it's pretty cool.
Alison: And it's pretty cool to feel like an equal, you know, and, and, and feel valued.
Alison: And I think that I needed to learn some of those lessons maybe outside of this dimension so I can apply them within the dimension.
Alison: And so my goal remains, and this is not a secret to even anybody in that full-time job that my goal is to become a full-time content creator.
Alison: Like this is still, I haven't lost any of the juice that I have for any of this.
Alison: I just, it's really nice.
Alison: And Matt and I have gotten into a really nice pattern, which, you know, for those of you
Alison: that have been listening for a long time, know that like, I'm the one that seeks the, like
Alison: the rhythm, the like comfort place.
Alison: I don't love and crave newness.
Alison: Right.
Alison: No.
Alison: And so it's been nice to know every morning I'm going to wake up.
Alison: I'm going to begin my work day around eight o'clock.
Alison: I'm going to work real hard for roughly eight hours.
Alison: And then I'm going to get to end my day hanging out with Matt and making our cool, weird,
Alison: nerdy stuff.
Alison: That rhythm has been really beneficial for me as a human, but especially as a neuro-spicy human.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: It's been what I've needed and I think has taken the heat off myself and my relationships with others.
Alison: So yay for rolling with a big, big, huge punch when things were not going my way.
Alison: And instead of like doubling down and demanding that I get what I wanted, being like, all right, maybe the universe is up to some shit.
Alison: Maybe I should be open-minded about something for once.
Matt: Just open-minded to the path to get there, right?
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: One hundred percent.
Matt: And I saw you learning that or taking that lesson or whatever.
Matt: Fighting it.
Matt: But no, no, that's the thing is like when it came down to it, I feel like one of the
Matt: coolest things is that you did at the moment that was necessary say, something is telling
Matt: me this is correct, that this is going to be the first job that I can walk into absolutely wanted,
Matt: absolutely respected, absolutely confident about. And you did it. You were stressed out for sure
Matt: at the beginning, but you were juggling all of it. And then you absolutely pulled off the thing
Matt: that I'm proud of you for.
Matt: I wasn't allowed to say this in the episode
Matt: a couple of episodes ago.
Matt: You told me that you were proud of me
Matt: for achieving a three-year-old goal
Matt: of game mastering at a convention.
Matt: And that convention was Gen Con.
Matt: And it was a big deal.
Matt: And I was really excited to cross that off the list.
Matt: Walking into Gen Con,
Matt: I feel like you and I both came out of that experience,
Matt: changed just calmer just more uh you know my decision to kind of take a take my foot off the
Matt: pedal and and your decision to kind of go into it i remember when you said i'm not interested in being
Matt: a dungeon master a game master i'm not interested in that i just want to be a player my words it's
Matt: his favorite game it's my favorite game i remember when you were like i'm not but and then then it was
Matt: I am not interested in being a campaign game master.
Matt: I'm not interested in running a campaign.
Matt: But you went to Gen Con,
Matt: and not only did you kill it,
Matt: according to multiple sources,
Matt: I mean, you killed it according to
Matt: one of the main designers of Daggerheart herself.
Matt: And I saw the embracing of AK
Matt: in that community, in that thing,
Matt: And so you just like, again, the confidence, you just like this.
Matt: And what is the result of leaving that?
Matt: The first thing you said was, I think I might want to try running a longer campaign.
Matt: And so I was like, well, that's super convenient because I want to take a break.
Matt: So have at it.
Matt: So I'm just, you really hit a moment around August where, you know, more things, more balls were being tossed at you to juggle.
Alison: And you instead of going, these were the balls I ordered.
Matt: Then you were like, yeah.
Matt: And it hasn't stopped.
Matt: But I think that we're in so much better position to do so much more based on levels of security, levels of confidence, levels of worry.
Matt: You know, I mean, one thing we've never talked about on this podcast, and it's a major ADHD issue, is money, finances, security, taking care of yourself.
Matt: I guess we did talk about the ADHD tax at one point, but like that tax is so it can be so devastating.
Matt: It could ruin your life. Right. And so I think to want wisdom doesn't cure ADHD, but it can build a fortress of security, maybe that allows you to say, OK, wait, wait, wait a minute.
Matt: Yes, I do want to push and push and push to make this YouTube channel, this role-playing game thing.
Matt: I want to make it a reality, which means if I do that, is this going to suffer?
Matt: But if I take this job with this client, is that going to make that suffer?
Matt: And to be able to have the wisdom to say, no, it's not.
Matt: I can split up my days and I can learn to have a routine.
Matt: I can learn to balance my time.
Matt: I don't know if we'll ever be perfectly balanced, but I think that...
Matt: No, no.
Matt: I love seeing you on those Skillshare posts.
Matt: I love seeing that.
Matt: I'm like, I know her.
Matt: That's amazing.
Matt: You know, I don't know.
Matt: It just felt right.
Matt: And the wisdom was saying you could get so much more gone right now if you're not worried
Matt: about money.
Alison: Yeah.
Matt: If you're not worried about how rent is going to happen.
Matt: if you can pay off a credit card.
Matt: It's not what we want to do.
Matt: It is though sometimes just within reason, within reason.
Matt: We're not talking about letting go of dreams and goals.
Matt: We're talking about just going to them in a more mature way.
Alison: Well, and I don't know.
Alison: I don't think that I've shared this on the podcast, Matt.
Alison: There was one sentence that literally changed my life this year.
Alison: And it came into my life around August.
Alison: And it's a sentence I've heard many times before.
Alison: I'm going to say it in a second.
Alison: Don't worry.
Alison: It's probably one that you've also heard before.
Alison: I'm not like spouting brand new wisdom, but it stopped me in my tracks because I think
Alison: this time I was ready to hear it and ready to embody it in a way that I just prior had
Alison: wanted to play the blame game.
Alison: I wanted to be the victim of circumstance.
Alison: I wanted to say, well, I'm not getting my way because X, Y, Z and the world is mean to
Alison: me and God doesn't care.
Alison: And like all of these, you know, kind of coming from this angry place.
Alison: And this time I was like, oh, and that sentence is what you don't change, you choose.
Alison: Like you have to change or you choose to be miserable, to be broke, to be unhealthy, to be alone or any of these things.
Alison: And like as a single 40 something woman, I learned a long time ago, like no one's coming for me.
Alison: No one's coming to save me.
Alison: Like we all have to be our own pretty, pretty princess and knight in shining armor.
Alison: You know, like, and the thing is, is that like people learn that lesson, you know, people who are in healthy relationships learned long ago that their partner didn't save them.
Alison: You know, they, they added to, they, they enhanced, they made things funnier or more fun or easier or harder and other things.
Alison: But nobody is.
Matt: Purposefully harder.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: The, the, the, the thing you're waiting for is you.
Alison: You're the only person at the end of the day that's going to be able to make a difference in your life.
Alison: And I just, to everything you just said, I kind of woke up one day and social media showed me that quote packaged in a way that my little brain receptors were ready to glom on to.
Alison: And I was like, I'm unhappy.
Alison: I'm broke.
Alison: I'm, you know, stressed.
Alison: I'm not my best self and living my best life.
Alison: And I'm gripping so hard trying to convince everybody that I am okay.
Alison: And it just like the second I let go of that, like, and just was like, you just have to,
Alison: you have to change something.
Alison: Like life is not going to get easier or different.
Alison: You're going to say, I'm going to approach this in a different way.
Alison: I'm going to care less, care more, like whatever it is, but it has to start.
Alison: And there, I mean, I'm just going to, anybody listening to this, you won't understand until
Alison: it's time to learn this.
Alison: Like we all have to learn.
Alison: Sadly, you hearing me say this is not going to be the thing.
Alison: No.
Alison: And I know.
Matt: No.
Matt: And sorry, finish your thought because I was thinking something at the same time.
Alison: No, go ahead.
Alison: Go ahead.
Matt: Well, the funny thing about what you just said is on this podcast before in recent years,
Matt: I don't remember which season it was, but we do quote Joan Rivers where, you know, life
Matt: doesn't get easier.
Matt: You get.
Matt: Fill in the blank.
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: And we said this and this is why we felt the confidence.
Matt: Okay, we're going to go for what we want.
Matt: We're not going to settle for this.
Matt: We're not going.
Matt: But even in learning that lesson, we had to learn that to pull the universe to say, I want this, also means that you have to learn that lesson of, you know, not clamping down, not blaming something else for, you know, finding that way.
Matt: Like listening for, you know, exactly what the universe is telling you, right?
Matt: Like listening may not sound the way that you want it to be.
Matt: And that lesson we didn't even learn until, I mean, we've learned it better.
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: Maybe next year we'll be like, okay, guys.
Matt: So remember that Joan Rivers quote?
Matt: Okay.
Matt: So part three is, you know, like, I don't know, maybe, but something feels different.
Matt: Something definitely feels different this time and this year.
Matt: And I feel like it's not just a, I say what I want.
Matt: I ask for this and kind of wait or hope or, you know.
Matt: Now it's, there's a proactivity to that statement as well.
Alison: And I mean, you know better than anybody that, you know, the first few years of our friendship
Alison: were marked by you presenting me with new things and me shutting down and saying, nope,
Alison: that feels scary.
Alison: And here's like, we'll go full woo here for a second.
Alison: That is based on a shadow of mine that I can't be bad at anything.
Alison: And that is based in my ADHD.
Alison: See, I can connect everything, you know?
Alison: And I think that was one of the hard fought lessons of the year is you're not going to get good at anything if you're not bad at it first.
Alison: There's no professional out there who is good at their thing now that wasn't bad first.
Alison: You have to, and I think I said this on a recent episode, you have to be a bad GM before you can be a good GM.
Alison: So if you're constantly saying nope because you're afraid of failure or looking silly or being bad, you're going to stay on the hamster wheel.
Alison: You're going to stay in the same place, wondering why life isn't more kind and more gracious to you, wondering why you don't get.
Alison: It's that, you know, the guy who goes to the statue and prays daily, please let me win the lottery.
Alison: Please let me win the lottery.
Alison: Please let me win the lottery.
Alison: And finally, the statue comes to life and says, for fuck's sake, buy a lottery ticket.
Alison: And we're out here begging to win the lottery without spending the $2 to get the ticket sometimes.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: You know?
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: And it's a nice, it's very nice to think that somebody is going to walk up to my front door and hand me a winning lottery ticket and also be the man of my dreams and also give me my dream job.
Alison: It's great.
Alison: And a magic pill so I can be exactly the size I want to make.
Alison: Like every, you know, we all have insecurities and qualms and things we don't like that we want changed.
Alison: And I just told you, but a few of mine, I have many, many more.
Alison: Don't you worry.
Matt: But like, so, yeah.
Matt: The theme for this year, 2025, was mastery.
Matt: And we knew, did we know?
Matt: Did we know that we were going to, we did know that we were going to both be game mastering
Matt: at Gen Con.
Alison: No.
Matt: We didn't?
Alison: I don't think we knew.
Alison: I think that was an early 2025, not a late 2024.
Matt: Well, I'll be DM.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: This time last year I have, it was like, I'm not GMing at a fucking conference.
Alison: Are you kidding me?
Matt: Right.
Matt: Well.
Matt: That's all Matt.
Matt: I would say that the theme for this year absolutely helped.
Matt: I, you know, we both became game masters at the largest American convention for role playing games.
Matt: I learned at this moment what I truly knew and what I didn't know.
Matt: And to your point, I think that's part of mastery.
Matt: It's like, I want to be not an okay GM, which is fine.
Matt: Lots of people are okay GMs.
Matt: I want to be a great one.
Matt: I want to be the one that is just effortless.
Matt: like just that it's just I love it I will I just so ironically to be a game master in that
Matt: environment I had to accept oh mastery is also taking breaks and also listening to other game
Matt: masters play it's also playing it's also doing all these other things so I'm not a master yet and I
Matt: would like to try a different tactic but also you mastered your job with the client and they paid
Matt: you back by saying, you're obviously the only person that knows how to do this. You need to be
Matt: the person that does this. I finally built an app for captioning, caption point with the help of,
Matt: you know, people and AI and all of that. And I think we achieved that, but again,
Matt: not in ways that we thought we would. The mastery elements, they're sneaky too, right?
Matt: Yeah. They're sneaky too.
Alison: Well, and that's the thing.
Alison: Like, I feel honestly, quite frankly, and this is the first time I'm thinking this, I feel better right now in December 2025, having not gotten the things that I wanted than I probably would have had I gotten them.
Alison: Because I would have doubled down and tried to go about getting them in only the way I wanted rather than being like, okay, listen.
Alison: You know, and so I tried at least for the back half of the year just to be like instead of saying like what I want, how can I just start describing like how I feel and how I want to feel is I like what I do.
Alison: How I want to feel is I love my friends.
Alison: You know, like how I want to feel is a part of something bigger than myself.
Alison: Like those are all things rather than saying like I need to have a YouTube channel that has this many subscribers and I'm making this much money.
Alison: And I like the universe will take care of the thing and probably like smash what you think you want.
Alison: Like, what if we thought what we wanted was, you know, 10,000 subscribers and like the universe was ready to hand us a million.
Alison: But like we we were to like, it's got to be this thing this way.
Alison: And it's interesting because like it was a hard year.
Alison: It was a hard year for me.
Alison: It was a hard year for everybody.
Alison: There is like we say this a lot.
Alison: The world is on fire.
Alison: Like there are things that are fucked.
Alison: And I don't mean to make light of any of those situations.
Alison: But this time of year, and it's the same as every year, you know, that's one thing ADHD wise.
Alison: I don't think I fully understood what pattern recognition meant prior to this year.
Alison: And now as someone with a neurodivergent brain, I understand what pattern recognition means like in my everyday life.
Alison: I thought it was like when people would say like, oh, people with ADHD are good at pattern recognition.
Alison: I thought it meant something to do with math and less about like the interpersonal relationships and the hamster wheels we all choose to stay on because we're waiting for somebody to come pull us off of it.
Alison: But we're the ones that have to stop it.
Alison: Right.
Alison: But the pattern that I recognize this year is that it's the end of the year and out come the memes of dumpster fires.
Alison: And the thing is, it's the same meme every year with just this year slapped on it.
Alison: And they're fun.
Alison: Like, I think this is not me meme shaming anybody.
Alison: I share them.
Alison: I get a chuckle out of them.
Alison: I promise.
Alison: Like there are dumpster fires on dumpster fires on dumpster fires.
Alison: We are going to the dumpster fire castle in this current timeline.
Alison: Okay.
Alison: Let me get that sorted.
Alison: But as hard as this year was and as much as didn't go my way and as many disappointments as I faced and as many crocodile tears as I cried, I don't think this was a bad year, Matt.
Alison: I don't.
Alison: And I can't.
Alison: This year I can't in good faith reshare those memes with 2025 slapped on it because I don't align with that anymore.
Matt: There's a difference between hard and good.
Alison: Yeah.
Matt: You know, and I think you're right.
Matt: I think it was hard year.
Matt: It was a challenging year and it was challenging for the world.
Matt: It was challenging for people and our friends.
Matt: And, uh, but I think that the end result, you and I are, are realizing that it has been good.
Matt: I mean, I do feel closer to mastery.
Matt: I do feel more mastery of my, my emotions and things.
Matt: I think also you and I made this decision recently to, instead of putting everything in the bucket that it is supposed to be in.
Matt: Are you ready to talk about this?
Matt: Yeah.
Matt: Are you ready to talk about this?
Alison: Y'all ready for this?
Alison: Don't know.
Matt: So, yeah. So instead, I think that we another thing that we had to learn, a very difficult lesson was you do need to learn how to do something.
Matt: And you have to get to the point where you can copy, you can you can imitate, you can dot all the T's.
Alison: Dot all the T's.
Alison: Cross all the I's.
Matt: And before you realize, okay, but this is my voice.
Matt: This is our voice, right?
Matt: I'm alluding to what I talked about in a minute where Fitz and Evan found that so quickly and easily.
Matt: This is what we want to do.
Matt: This thing, we want to write the story and then we want to reach out and get to know fellow creators and have them be voices.
Matt: And Evan said, I want my mom, his mom, just his, not yours.
Matt: want our mom to be a part of this and and and all of these people like and they want to enter podcast
Matt: awards and you and i were like adhd 20 is so specific and so personal and so us and so ours
Matt: that it's hard to even think about pushing and that's why there have been eight episodes this
Matt: year. But I think that with guests like Jesse J. Anderson and guests like Kelly McLaughlin of the
Matt: Dungeon Dudes, we realized, no, the reason that they are on this show is because this is where
Matt: Allison and I are being our truest self. We are not going to effectively mask and represent as
Matt: non-ADHD people, non-neurodivergent people, and then try to create interesting content or
Matt: educational stuff or actual plays if it doesn't speak that level of truth and confidence, really.
Matt: I know that I'm more confident when I start talking about ADHD. That's why we started this
Matt: five years ago. I mean, I know that if I can, even if I don't say it out loud,
Matt: everything I do is filtered through that. And it's important to me now. It's been important to me for
Matt: a long, long time because, you know, we're trying to, what'd you say, heal shadow, kill shadows or
Matt: whatever. Kill the shadows, just murder them. Kill the shadows. Murder shadows. No, I don't want to
Alison: murder the shadows because they make you who you are and they teach you lessons and light up the
Alison: path. Yeah. Yeah. We want to. When you know better, do better. When you know better, do better. And
Matt: what we, I think what we know better now at the end of this year is the stuff that we want to do,
Matt: which is talk about Daggerheart and other games, but, you know, really focus on mostly Daggerheart.
Matt: And Divination RPG. Divination RPG. Yeah. And just things that we're interested in,
Matt: number one, things that, that, that reach out to the people that we're talking to right now,
Matt: which is people listening, like be a bigger part of that.
Matt: Don't just talk about it.
Matt: Like spend energy and be it and write adventures for people that have brains like ours or brains
Matt: similar to ours and then have actual play with other people who have brains similar to
Matt: us and just kind of let that be our truest self.
Matt: And that's what that's what 2026 is gearing up to be for us, like an extension of this podcast to be able to talk to game masters and players about the wonderful things that role playing can give them.
Matt: And then like try to like hold hands for people who like us have ADHD and are super overwhelmed as game masters.
Matt: Don't know where to start, you know, and work with them and learn from them and talk to them and players too.
Matt: Like how to not be afraid of saying things in a game, how to say things and then not experience weeks of RSD until the next session.
Matt: Like these are important things to us.
Matt: Why wouldn't we be talking about them?
Matt: So that's 2026 goals.
Alison: Let's do a quick rewind because we're going to unveil our word of the year for 2026.
Alison: We have accidentally pigeonholed ourselves, but we're not doubling down.
Alison: We will let go of this, the shtick whenever we need to.
Alison: But as we've now mentioned multiple times on today's show.
Matt: Multiple.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: 2025's theme was mastery.
Alison: 2024's theme was more.
Matt: More.
Matt: Which we certainly did.
Alison: Because it was the year prior that we kind of started this and realized all of us collectively, hopefully some of you listening too, we wanted more of each other.
Alison: And 2023 was kind of the year we got all of this going.
Alison: And that year's word was magic.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: So we've had magic.
Alison: We've had more.
Alison: We've had mastery.
Alison: And we promise we will not always feel that it has to be an M word.
Alison: Right.
Alison: We even were joking.
Alison: I think I said to Matt, I was like, it doesn't have to be an M word.
Alison: And then Matt says the word.
Alison: And I'm like, well, there it is.
Alison: So Matt.
Matt: There it is.
Alison: Please unveil the 2026.
Alison: 2026.
Matt: theme. Yeah. So another thing that I wanted to master this year was what we were just talking
Matt: about, that ability to be relaxed about our finances, to understand that it was important.
Matt: And I grew up in a family that kind of demonized money, an artsy family, an artistic family.
Matt: We just didn't really learn lessons as you and I just spoke about. Sometimes money was the
Matt: evil that was always so disappointing and why didn't we have it and i have really wanted this
Matt: year to do my best to kind of learn that that is not the case uh that is not what we want
Matt: so uh 2026 for us is going to be about money
Alison: right
Alison: okay now tell them the real word i was like he's totally setting this up so it sounds like our word
Alison: of the year is money you tell him you tell him the word listen we are not afraid of money we could do
Alison: great things with more money you know as i've already mentioned we you know it is my goal and
Alison: i think it's matt's goal too for this to become our full-time role and the thing that funds the fun
Alison: I mean, there it is.
Alison: But to all those points, our theme, why are you like this?
Alison: I mean, all of the best way.
Matt: I really went down that path, though.
Alison: You really, you committed to the bit.
Matt: I sold it, though.
Alison: If there's one thing that you need to know about us, it's that we are over committed to the bit.
Alison: But no, with everything else that we have shared today, our theme of 2026 is going to be on making.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: And that may mean making money.
Alison: Yeah, exactly.
Alison: That means making a lot more content, as Matt already mentioned.
Matt: Oh, God, the alliteration is so good.
Matt: Mentioned making things.
Alison: We want to be making tools that help, you know?
Alison: And we want to be putting it in places where people can get to it.
Alison: And can fold it into their own practices.
Alison: And we want to be making more of the thing, you know, we're going to be making more friends.
Alison: And we want to be making more connections into this industry and community that means so much to us.
Alison: And, like, there's just so many things that we want to be making.
Alison: So we want to be makers in 2026.
Alison: So, yeah, we have a new channel that I think you're probably hearing if you're listening to this,
Alison: especially if you're on the first wave of patrons listening to this before it's even out.
Alison: This may be the first you're hearing of it, and we will have a lot more information for you very, very soon and how you can support.
Alison: And it's one of those things with everything that we've talked about today.
Alison: We asked ourselves, like, are we making it harder on ourselves to essentially start over?
Alison: Right. Are we are we shooting?
Alison: I made the joke, but I love to cut off my nose to spite my face.
Alison: Are we doing that here?
Alison: And kind of where we reached together was is that we are now fundamentally different people than we were when we started this journey a few years ago.
Alison: We know more.
Alison: We know a lot more.
Alison: And there are mistakes that we made in our own algorithmic exploits that we think that we may be able to correct on a new channel.
Alison: So ADHD20, the podcast, is not going anywhere.
Alison: The pocket dimension, as you know it to be now of myself and Matt and Evan and Fitz aren't going anywhere.
Alison: Right.
Alison: But we are going to turn our focus now to more content that really serves our beautiful niche of an audience.
Alison: People who are neuro spicy who also like tabletop role playing games.
Alison: You may see more of yourself in one side or the other.
Alison: You may be a perfect blend.
Alison: You don't have to be either.
Alison: I mean, if you just want to kind of come hang out with us for vibes, because you like hearing a bunch of nerds talk about these things, that's fine, too.
Alison: It's not meant to be exclusive in any way, shape or form.
Alison: But we just kind of want to try and make it very clear that we are making there's that word things for people who want to play and do and create.
Alison: And nerd out in all these ways.
Matt: So, yeah, because it is more and more making.
Matt: Okay.
Alison: I will also be changing my name to Malison.
Matt: Yes.
Matt: I think that in this age where there is this thing, AI, that is scaring a lot of people,
Matt: and it is something that is steamrolling the universe, it is going to change the way that
Matt: things are done.
Matt: It's already changed the way that things are done.
Matt: I think that more than ever, now is the time for you to be a storyteller, for you to tell stories with your friends, to find your community, to do human things.
Matt: I am not in any way against AI.
Matt: I have learned a lot about it this year.
Matt: I think it can be used for good.
Matt: It can be used for evil.
Matt: But wherever it ends up kind of settling out, we can still make things with and for each other that build up that confidence, that resistance that we were talking about, like that level of mastery over being humans.
Matt: That I think is something that will never be erased.
Matt: So, yeah, I want to make some shit this year.
Alison: I specifically want to make some shit with you, Matt.
Matt: Amen to that.
Matt: I will.
Matt: I will have you.
Matt: Yeah.
Alison: And for those of you like me, less like Matt, listening to this that are very change averse.
Alison: I see you.
Alison: I hold your hand through this.
Alison: I honor you.
Alison: I understand you.
Alison: I will listen to you.
Alison: We're going to change some things.
Alison: There's going to be new, unfamiliar territory ahead.
Alison: And there may be some temporary or permanent goodbyes to some things.
Alison: But there will hopefully be brand new doors opening and curtains being shoved aside for some new things.
Alison: And at the end of the day, I am officially not afraid of this change, A, because what you don't change, you choose.
Alison: And I am choosing a far more easy and fun life ahead of me from this day forward.
Alison: And two, I have y'all, like anybody listening to this that has been along for the ride up to this point, you are the reason that we have gotten to this point.
Alison: We're not going anywhere on that relationship.
Alison: Right.
Alison: We just want to invite more people to the party.
Alison: And so, you know, don't fear the reaper.
Alison: Don't fear change.
Alison: Think about what my life would have looked like this year if I had stayed tight in my little safe bubble and had continued to tell Matt, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Alison: That feels unfamiliar.
Alison: I wouldn't have had some of like the most meaningful experiences of my life all packed into one itty bitty year.
Matt: Yep. Yep. Or you could also see the flip side. If you are the person that is constantly needing something new and something changed, that's me, by the way, I urge you to take a breath, to look at the things that you are good at right this minute, to look at the people around you that mean the most to you.
Matt: And focus to the best of your ability on those things, getting better at those things.
Matt: Because the feeling on the other side of kind of fighting to be meaningful about these things and to find routine and to be okay with not constantly skating on ice, right?
Matt: It's an addictive thing for people like me, but look around you and like say, that's a path that is working that I can, I can do.
Matt: And that for us, that applies to, you know, this new channel with a just an honest filter of neurodivergence.
Matt: It is, we just love Daggerheart, man.
Matt: Sorry.
Matt: We just love it.
Matt: Why fight it?
Matt: You know, we just like all these things that it doesn't mean you can.
Matt: look, but you don't have to spend all the time and energy that you have in the past. Because,
Matt: you know, when you have people like Allison who love to have that schedule and can keep you
Alison: grounded in that way, shit, man, become unstoppable. I love a schedule. I love knowing what to expect.
Alison: Yeah. So here's to some of that, but also letting go of expectations all at the same time.
Alison: Hey, Matt. Yes. Thanks for having me on your podcast.
Matt: Allison, thank you for having me on your podcast.
Alison: Oh, can I tell one more quick story about one of my things that I will be starting in
Alison: 2026?
Alison: Because I'd like to share this journey with everyone.
Alison: It's very important to me.
Alison: Next year, I'm going to begin my sourdough journey.
Alison: I'm going to become a sourdough girly.
Alison: And the only reason, let me be clear, that I want to do that.
Alison: Well, I love a carb.
Alison: I mean, so there's two reasons, like especially a breakfast carb.
Alison: And why am I spending so much money at the store on things like sourdough toast and English muffins when I can just learn to, you know, I'm becoming a maker next year.
Alison: So I'm going to be making some sourdough.
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: But the real reason, and I think anybody who knows me on any level knows this about me, the real reason I want to become a sourdough girly is because I want to name my starter.
Alison: And I have already named my starter and I can think of no better place to unveil the name.
Alison: Matt is humiliated on my behalf, which only makes me love it more.
Alison: I love it.
Alison: In 2026, I will begin my sourdough journey with my starter, dopamine.
Matt: All right.
Matt: So every episode of ADHD 20 next year, which we do honestly, truthfully hope there's more than eight.
Matt: We're going to keep saying that until it becomes true to everybody.
Matt: I don't care.
Matt: If it isn't, if it's six, it's fine.
Matt: Whatever.
Matt: Every episode, instead of dice rolling, instead of tarot cards.
Matt: It'll be stretch and folds.
Matt: It's going to be, you know, harnessing the power of the dopamine.
Alison: Harnessing the power of the dopamine.
Alison: If you are a sourdough either person or want to become one, I would like for you to drop in the comments, wherever you are viewing or listening to this episode, your name or wishful name of your sourdough starter.
Alison: And I will go ahead and tell you all that my runner up was going to be Doline.
Matt: What?
Matt: Dough-lene?
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Matt: Dough-lene.
Matt: Dough-lene.
Matt: Interestingly enough, I would probably call mine Mother.
Matt: Sorry, that's like a, that's a Glenn Danzig.
Matt: Wow.
Matt: Mother.
Matt: Don't they sometimes call them mothers?
Matt: The yeast starters?
Alison: Yeah.
Alison: You can call it whatever you want to call it.
Matt: I like Dough-lene and dopamine much better.
Alison: But I really think that the hook that's going to bring everybody back in 2026 and beyond is me and dopamine.
Alison: The dopamine.
Alison: I mean.
Alison: And I respect that, everyone.
Alison: I can't wait.
Alison: Thanks for a great season four, Maddie.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Dough-lene.
Alison: Thanks for listening to ADHD 20, part of Tabletopsy Turvy and The Pocket Dimension.
Matt: Find more tools and ideas for running and playing TTRPGs and existing with ADHD brains over on Tabletopsy Turvy's YouTube channel.
Alison: Join our Patreon to support the work we're building, get downloadable TTRPG resources, and play games with us.
Alison: Links are in the show notes.
Matt: And if this episode made you laugh or feel seen, we'd love it if you'd share it with a friend.
Matt: Thanks for being a part of ADHD 20 and our greater commonwealth of nerds.
