Alison: Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe that's the next time,
instead of going to a castle we'll

go on like a cheese roadtrip.

Matt: Ooh.

Cheese trips.

Alison: A cheese-inspired road
trip and go to the best, most

ridiculous places to acquire cheese.

Matt: You're speaking my language.

I love it.

You look nice today.

Alison: I showered.

I had to get in front of clients.

So I decided to pretend
like I'm a whole adult.

And not a toddler.

Matt: Yeah.

Gosh.

Being a toddler is fun.

hi.

Hi, Alison.

How are you?

Alison: Hi, Matt.

I'm so good.

How about you?

Matt: I'm okay.

I'm okay.

It's uh, I had a.

I'm just having a, like,
You know what it is.

I think I'm burned out.

That's all.

Alison: I get it

Matt: I just, yeah, I
think, that proverbial wall.

Yeah, I think I just,
just need a little break.

Alison: You've slammed into the wall
and now you're just sliding down it.

Matt: My spirits are high.

My, just exhaustion level is.

Whew.

Yeah.

By the way, welcome to ADHd20.

This is a podcast that tries to
find the intersection between...

Alison: ADHD

and

Matt: Dungeons and Dragons.

two great tastes that taste great together
in our mind, and I am also, you spoke

of trying new medicines last week.

And I am.

I'm in the process of, trying to
convince my doctor to allow me to spend

more money on it on a drug know works..

Alison: Oh, no!.

The quest for the perfect
cocktail will never be complete.

Matt: The perfect drug,
the perfect drug, yeah.

Alison: My, my symptoms have
gotten a little bit better.

I have shifted from being awake for a
few hours in the middle of the night.

To awake by around 5:00 AM.

So still not averaging enough
sleep at night, but shifting

into some maybe next week.

we'll move to my normal wake
up time of like 6:30, 7,

will be right with the world.

Matt: I bet you, will.

I have discovered much to my chagrin.

Is that exercise helps.

Oh, really wish it wasn't.

But it really does.

We've been walking and just walking.

We've just been walking

Alison: I know, I can't,
I know I need to, I, I.

I know for a fact, you are
a thousand percent, right.

Not when it is 95
degrees and 80% humidity.

I, I, I just, I.

I'm unable to can.

Matt: It was very difficult
to get on to the train.

Cause it is hot and it makes you
itchy and irritated and angry.

But early morning it makes you hateful.

That's a great word.

Hateful.

Hateful.

But I, I know, I know.

It's bad here, which means
it's real bad where you are.

Alison: It's okay.

We've made it to August.

Which means next month is September,
which means by October, maybe we will

have some relief in temperatures.

Matt: And then.

Cheese Castle.

Alison: And then life gets
so much better in the fall.

And cheese.

But we're probably going to cut
the entire intro and everybody this

entire episode is going to be like,
why do they keep bringing up cheese?

You'll never know.

Matt: You'll never know
just how much we cheese.

All right.

So, today on ADHd20.

I was asking Alison what...

she had prepared some notes and I said,
I can't remember what I'm supposed to

remember what we're talking about today.

And she said,

Alison: Don't worry

Matt: Don't worry about it, which
is truly one of the kindest things

anyone could ever say to me.

Alison: But before we dive into that,
you know what we have to do, right?

Matt: I do I do I do.

Alison: It's time to roll those
beautiful d100s for the ADHd100 table.

And.

I'm rolling a lot of even numbers today.

Matt: 72 is my number.

Alison: Alrighty.

Alrighty.

Alrighty.

Alrighty.

What aspect of D&D took the
longest for you to learn or

absorb because of your ADHD?

Matt: Ooh.

Gosh, these are great questions, man.

These are really great questions.

Let's see.

Uh, it's still happening for me.

The most difficult thing for me to
remember are all of the conditions.

Alison: Just what each of them mean
and what happens when you are...

Matt: Blindness versus stunned
versus this, versus that versus all

of the different conditions that
happen in combat or our elsewhere.

I love the advantage
disadvantage system in general.

I love that.

Um, and I know that a lot of them
have to do with advantage and

disadvantage, but I feel like those
are little things that kind of get

into my brain and they're gone.

They just do not, do not lock in.

But our friend.

Hi Fitz, we have to mention Fitz
every But Fitz seems to have a,

just right at the, just ready to go.

Alison: In your defense though,
they don't always make sense.

So like one, I always struggle
with, I feel like if someone's

grappled, you should be rolling
with advantage to hit them, right?

Cause they're held in place.

Probably by an ally.

But that's not the case.

So there are certain times where
if somebody has a condition

you do or don't get advantage,
that doesn't line up logically.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Maybe that's it.

I'm going to give you credit where
credit's due for the inability

to remember some of these.

Matt: Thank you.

Thank you.

But yeah.

That, one's super tough for me.

Okay.

How about you?

Roll some dice.

Alison: I rolled a 60.

Matt: 60.

Ooh.

Oh, Who is your favorite maker?

What does that question

What does that question even mean?

Alison: People who make minis or dice
or, uh, rolling trays or notebooks.

And it doesn't necessarily have to
just be in the D&D community, but

what Etsy shop or Instagram account
or otherwise are you a huge fan of.

Um, my favorite maker, and this
is actually funny, cause I just

reached out to her last week
to tell her about this podcast.

Uh, found her on Instagram.

Uh, her name is Gabby, her, um, handle
shop, et cetera, is Maise Designs.

It's M-A-I-S-E Designs and she
makes the most beautiful dice.

And she makes these sets.

She calls them her Nebula sets.

So she puts, I don't even know what it is.

Um, What's the word like, like almost like
a shiny crinkly cellophane inside dice.

So they look lit from within, they are.

Yes, that's it.

That's the word I'm looking for!

So like they just, they have a
light inside of them, it feels like.

I decided to commission some dice.

That's how serious I got about this.

I was like, I'm going to pick somebody
whose art I admire, reach out, and

ask to own a piece of what they do.

And she just, she couldn't
be more wonderful.

I love all of her content.

I love everything she designs.

And she introduced me to my
favorite ADHD account on Instagram

called ADHDelite, which is a
very funny, it's a meme account.

In.

fact, they posted a meme last week,
right after we published the last

episode, all around object permanence
and friendship degradation mechanics.

Matt: Wow.

Alison: So everything always just
feels like connected and on par.

So Gabby, if you're
listening, I love your stuff.

I love owning a set of your
dice and everybody should go

follow her because she's fab.

Yay.

All right.

Are you ready to find out what

Matt: I really

Alison: Alison thinks that we should do

Matt: I really am.

Really am very excited.

Alison: This could tank so hard.

I'm just going to warn you.

But Here's the bright idea I
had, but a few minutes ago.

I'm calling it The Potluck Episode.

Matt: Okay.

Alison: What if I went into all of our
old outlines and scraped all of the

things we keep forgetting to talk about.

Because we do, we have these outlines
every single week, and then we get

off track and distract ourselves and
talk about any and everything else.

So what if we kind of give ourselves
one more chance to cover some of

these topics here on episode 11.

Matt: Yeah.

Let's do it.

Let's try it.

Alison: So what, what you're going to do
is you're going to roll a D 12 for me.

And that will dictate what
topic we approach first.

It's very trusting of you to.

Matt: Oh man.

Alison.

I would go anywhere with you.

I would jump that train.

And, in that spirit, I rolled an eight.

Alison: Oh,

Matt: Oh no, oh no.

Alison: This is, a so we've, we've
actually talked about half of this, but

we haven't talked about the first half.

Dating with ADHD.

Matt: Oh,

Alison: That's the second half
is dating party members, which

we did approach with Tey.

And why prior to our Strahd
campaign, I was very strictly

no romance in the D&D campaign.

But yeah, dating with ADHD
comes with its own special...

I don't even know what the word
I'm looking for is, especially if

the other person doesn't have ADHD.

Or is not experienced dealing
with people with ADHD.

Matt: And we're talking to
specifically dating, right?

Dating in the sense of multiple dates
or, or is it the point where you've

been on multiple dates with one person.

Do we need a specification there?

Okay.

Okay.

So I think I would imagine that it would
be really amazing to go on a date with us.

The first date.

I think the first date
would be really amazing.

Because I think we would
be super creative about it.

I think go to a fun thing.

We would be like, very charming
and probably a little bit.

too forward.

So we, yeah, we might be
a little bit too forward.

The emotion...yeah?

Yeah.

Alison: Is that ADHD, cause I'm always
way too forward when I'm interested.

Can we blame it on that?

Matt: I think so because We
would get very emotionally.

Impulse control, meh.

And then also the excitement
and the idea of romance.

But I remember.

Not that I was a dating, dating person.

I didn't.

You know, The dates that I went
on, I did try to like who are you?

What are you into?

What are you doing?

Like.

Man, you know, So that's the
first one, maybe the second one.

Uh, and then you're going to start
noticing that we might be late.

We might actually be late on the first.

And then you're going to notice that
we're like, late and then we'll,

we will maybe forget some things.

Or, our moods might come
in right to the experience.

Which will be complicated.

Uh, and then you just have to
have the patience of Job, right.

Because once you really
start to realize, oh, wow.

This is somebody with ADHD.

And then you have to have patience
and you have to have understanding.

But I would say, I'd say the first date.

Alison: Super chill.

Super fun.

Matt: Pretty cool.

I would say.

I don't know.

What do you think?

No, not chill for us.

But cool.

What do you think?

Alison: It's so funny because like, as
you're saying all these things I'm of

course reflecting on because I've only
dated you and I are very much opposite,

then you're like the serial monogamist
and I'm like the I'm going to go on two

or three dates and then lose interest.

And I get crippling anxiety around
dating, especially the first date.

I hate first dates.

'Cause I just, I want to be in that,
like, I want to be in a comfortable place.

I don't want to experience the new thing.

It is everything we've talked about
on every single episode before, where.

All I want is to find the rhythm and
find the groove, which in dating is

impossible to do without going through it.

Um, And I've never once thought
about linking that to my ADHD.

I always blamed anxiety for that.

Here we

Matt: I mean, comorbid.

Comorbid.

Nice to meet ya.

Uh Yeah.

Interesting.

What do you think could change that, help
that, or make it a little better than.

Again, that's the, that's also it, right?

Like the understanding.

You know, I mean, I think
it'd be kind of lame to, to go

into a date and say, oh yeah.

I have ADHD and I'm, unless it's, unless
than there's an understanding there.

I feel like, I don't know whether
you want to talk about that a

whole lot on the first date.

I honestly would rather learn more
about the person that I'm on the date

with, then talk about myself, but.

But let's erase all that.

Let's say there is that understanding,
which is that safe space.

Do you think that would change things?

So you think that would.

What do you think?

How would that affect.

I wonder.

Alison: If only people could see
the look on my face right now.

It's giving serious, "no" and that's,

So part of this is dating with ADHD.

And part of this is dating in 2022.

The only way to date seems to
be online dating, which I've

absolutely just said no to.

I will get on these apps
once or twice a year.

And be like, okay, I'm going to do it.

I'm going to, I'm going to
figure out, like how can I

gamify this experience for me?

How can I find the fun
bit and pull at that?

So what most recently happened to
me, I was last on about a month ago.

Matched with some guys got to talking.

And then just lost interest.

Like it, it became work
to even reply to them.

And I said to myself, okay, I need to
get back off the apps because if I don't

even want to do this, so I don't have a
good answer to your question, I think.

And that's, I think that's okay though.

That's not the route that
I need to take to meet him.

So, uh, I'll let you know
when I figure it out.

To be continued, to be determined.

Matt: I love it.

Good answer.

Good answer.

Alison: All right, I'm gonna roll a d12
now, unless you want to keep rolling.

We can go back and

Matt: Please roll, yeah.

Alison: Let's see how many of
these we want to get through.

Um, Okay, this is a good one too.

I rolled big number one.

How have our care plans
evolved over the years?

I mean, I have one now
and I never did before.

So

Matt: Oh like our personal care plans.

Alison: I mean, I really am not
trying to be flippant, but it

started with, the diagnosis.

Six, seven years ago for me.

It was ignored for a few years.

So there's evolution one.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Diagnosed and then nothing.

Um, And then started the therapy,
on and off therapy, you know,

throughout the years that followed.

And then as I've shared.

I now went to my primary care
doctor and said, I want to.

I want to collaborate with you on
some ways to treat this, um, And.

This!

Opening up an open.

Yeah.

Opening up a dialogue, a conversation.

Inviting as many people as want to
be part of that conversation with us.

Both for themselves and for ones that
they love and that's what's been fun,

is getting to know my friends better
because of this, having them get to know

me better and then getting to know where
they're struggling either for themselves

or with a loved one, has been, an
excellent, I think part of my care plan.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: It has evolved.

I am very happy to report.

Matt: I love that.

I think mine is similar.

I think.

I've just had maybe a few more.

Yes.

I have ADHD.

No, I don't have ADHD.

Um, a few more of those in life.

I think one of the biggest
things for me is accepting that.

And this was the hardest one for me.

I think.

Accepting that it is a disability.

um, Again, because compared to my
wife, that word is very different

in my mind, but the idea of...

something that just makes
things tougher for me.

You know, This week and last week,
if I am feeling a burnout and I'm

just like watching myself shut down
and I'm like, please, man, like I

tried to just, you know that, that
stupid a lawn mower that won't start.

You're like c'mon.

And you get, you're getting more and
more mad because it just won't catch.

Just, won't You won't go.

Um, yeah.

Yeah.

The lawnmower of my disability.

I think that's one thing,
but also this podcast.

Also.

The coach for me.

And that has been just part of a
lot of these things that you and

I are discovering too, which is.

Oh, that's why I don't like doing that?

That's what?

And.

And hopefully the idea is
that the ball is rolling.

And I will spend more time instead
of fighting and being frustrated

and it just kind of going.

Okay.

that's totally normal.

Let's just wait.

That's the way things work, buddy.

Have a work around.

So buy yourself a lawnmower that,
that is electric or, uh, one of

those like rotary blade ones instead.

Just don't keep messing with that
stupid, gas powered pull system.

Right?

Alison: Yep.

I think that has been one of my
favorite things about the last

couple of years in my life.

Has been seeing where the care
plan is actually starting to work.

You and I are both reaching places
where we get frustrated or any sort

of way, hateful, burnt out, whatever
word we're going to use to describe it.

Matt: Right.

Alison: And we finally see
through to the other side.

We have this moment of, okay.

I've been here before I got through it.

I'm allowed to be frustrated.

I'm allowed to feel my feelings.

But I can still keep going.

I think about how you and I have both
gotten a lot better about advocating

for ourselves and what we need and
just like asking the question or,

you know, can we move somewhere else?

Because I can't sit in this
part and be undistracted.

And just like our little check-ins
with each other, like the, just more

clean, open lines of communication.

I was worried that you were mad
at me a couple of weeks ago.

So instead of brooding about
it all weekend long, I said,

Hey, Matt, are you mad?

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: And I'm doing that
with other friends too.

Like If there's moments where I can
sense something's about to set off

some kind of anxiety trigger in me,
I'm not always gracefully, but still

learning how to stop in that moment
and just say, like, here's what I need.

Like, I was somewhere with somebody and
somebody wasn't giving me an answer.

And I know for a lot of people, a lot
of times they'll be like, oh, well,

no answer is an answer, but not for me.

Like, I don't process it.

I just need to hear you say yes or no.

So, like I stopped in the
moment and I said, Hey, I didn't

get a clear answer from you.

If the answer's no, that's fine.

But.

Can you answer me and they
did, and I think that.

That's all proof a care
plan is coming together.

Matt: I say yay to that.

And I would, give a little call back to
the dating question in that think that.

E even though I am pretty
self-conscious about talking

about a disability around my wife.

Man is she delighted when we go on
a date and we sit down to a place.

And I can hear everything in the building
and I say, Hey, do you guys mind?

If we move?

And she's like, you could blame it on me.

That I, that she, for some reason, I
can't be in a noisy place, but I was

like, I don't need to blame it on you.

But yeah, she is so happy.

So happy when I do that because
again, she is the one who's going

to pick up on that more than I am.

You know, he's totally not listening to
me because he can't concentrate on what

I'm saying in this public place, so yay.

Yay.

To those things.

Alison: So not to not play with the dice
because we all know, I love a dice roll.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

Alison: But you keep kind of opening.

The door to one of the topics

Matt: in

Alison: Which

Matt: is

I just walk in.

Alison: It's actually not a question.

It's a statement with some asterisks.

ADHD is a disability.

Discuss.

I feel like you might have
some things to say here.

And I want to give you that platform.

Matt: Yes.

So this is the official
definition of disability.

A physical or mental condition
that limits a person's

movements, senses or activities.

I mean, it couldn't be plainer.

Couldn't be clearer.

Right?

I mean, Of course that speaks
to a person who's deaf.

But it absolutely speaks to me.

It really does.

ADHD for me has only really been
difficult for me when it comes to work.

That's just me.

It may be, it could be very
different for lots of different

people, but I'm, I notice it more.

I am hard on myself because of it, when
it, hits against things I want to do an

and need to do to make money or whatever.

Work is really the the thing that, that.

points the finger at a
disability that I have the most.

and that's always been the
case ever since I was little.

Schoolwork or anything.

um, So with that definition.

I think it is.

I think it absolutely is.

And I know that there are spectrums
for any disability pretty much right?

Spectrums of difficulty and
hindrance or limitations, challenges.

And I really am grateful that
either I have developed the tools

to manage as well as I have in my
life, without knowing about it.

Or I am on a, just a
lower end of the spectrum.

or.

Or, or anything, you know, but I've
had some very amazing people around

me in the last five years that have
encouraged me to speak of it as such.

Because I have been a part of a
disability community way before I

said, oh, ADHD is my disability.

Long before that.

So.

Um, the only thing about it for me is
that I have to be very, sensitive right.

I both understand, and
I have no idea, right?

Like I think.

I understand what it's like to have
a disability, but I have no idea

what it's like to be deaf or I have
low vision or anything like that.

Yeah.

Alison: I remember once I was talking
with somebody about trauma responses.

And I was speaking about something
in my past and I said exactly

that, but I know so many other
people have had it so much worse.

So I'm not trying to complain or
paint myself as some kind of victim.

And she was like that right there
is a trauma response though.

Convincing.

Convincing yourself that
other people have it worse.

So therefore yours is not
worthy of speaking up about.

Cause I don't think anybody hears
you say I have ADHD and yes, that's a

disability and thinks like, oh, he's
trying to steal the spotlight, the show

be, know, better at being disabled.

than his deaf wife.

Matt: But can you imagine though??

Can you imagine it like That has
been really difficult for me.

I think more and more I'm
growing comfortable with that.

And just saying, look, it
doesn't make any of us less cool.

It doesn't make any of us less interesting
or cool or effective, or, productive.

Alison: Yeah.

The sensitivity is appreciated.

Your sensitivity is appreciated, but at
the same time, we have to start helping

people realize this is not just a quirk.

This is not just, a
facet of our personality.

Matt: Right.

Alison: You know, so, And that goes for
anything in the mental health umbrella.

Matt: Um, Right before the show,
I was trying to fix the internet.

Because we've had problems recently.

And, uh, I, I kind of pinpointed it to
a little device that wasn't going well.

So of course that meant I had
to unplug a bunch of stuff.

And.

That doesn't sound that difficult Alison.

Just replacing one you know,
USB Thunderbolt hub with

another one that works better.

But I was in tears.

I was in because it was
so frustrating for me.

Just because the time was getting
close to meeting with you.

And I was just like, Why do I do this?

Why do I do this?

Gee, why do I always have
to fiddle and mess with.

And I just was like so mad at myself
just saying some awful things.

So I need to, I need to
apologize to myself later, but.

Alison: You do

Matt: I do, but it's tough, man.

It's tough.

Sometimes.

It's real tough.

Alison: No, I get that.

I was doing the same thing to myself.

I know that I, afternoons are not for me.

I'm a morning person now.

Not lately when I'm under slept, but.

If I put something off to the end
of day, it's not getting done and

will get shoved into the next day.

And so I had an important client
meeting this morning at 9:30.

And beat myself up in much
the same near tears way.

As I sat in front of my computer
at seven this morning going,

it didn't have to be this way.

You could have gotten this done yesterday.

You had plenty of time.

But there is some black hole void
between three and five that my

brain just nopes out of everything.

So.

We will apologize to
ourselves later, we promise.

Matt: We will.

I promised Matt, I promise.

Alison: I think your concept
of time struggle is more

akin to my clutter struggle.

Like I'd

like

Matt: My clutter struggle
is pretty strong.

Keep

Alison: Struggle is real.

But I know that people walk into
my house and just think, oh God,

Why can't she just get it together?

I'm like, it's not this isn't.

I'm not doing this, this
is just, I don't know.

Like, I don't know how to get,
I look at people's houses and

there's like everything for a
place and a place everything.

And I.

I don't, somebody would have to come
into my house, find those places for

me and leave a set of directions so
I could get them back there later.

I can't look at a room.

And think oh, this goes there.

That should be.

can't do that.

I cannot.

I am missing that level of visualizations.

Matt: Oh man.

Yes.

Yes, period.

Alison: Look at how productive we're being
with our, with our never got to list.

See, I thought this us both feel good
because I'm using the strike through

to just cross things off of our list.

And there is just nothing more
satisfying than that feeling.

Do we want to roll any more?

Do we want to call it here?

Matt: Let's see you want it.

Well, let's do one more.

Alison: Okay.

Here's what we're going to do.

Um, so we will, we will drop a
little morsel cause I think

this might be the next episode.

Matt's Productivity Hacks.

So we can each drop one
productivity hack today.

And then we will have a whole episode
where Matt can nerd out with us on all

of the goodies later, if y'all want.

Matt: Okay.

For me.

Consistently.

It is quick capture.

And in everything that I do, like
I know that I use too many tools.

I know that I jumped from
tool after tool too much.

But if I don't have a way to get something
in my brain into where it needs to go.

If you tell me, Ooh, let's go.

Let's go hang out on
Sunday at four o'clock.

If I don't put that in my calendar
instantly, then it's gone.

It won't be there I'll be
like, dang I was supposed to...

Or a task that is important or a thing to
go on the grocery list or this or that.

Like, So for me, a quick capture
is, not just important I think

for a lot of people, but to find.

To find those systems in whatever
computer you use, whatever phone you

use, just to, to be able to not let those
things fall from brain onto the floor.

I have a, a keyboard command command
space and that pulls up a launcher,

And that launcher would open up
apps, obviously, but command or,

spotlight, I spotlight itself built
into a I'm sure Windows has something

similar, but then you can set it to
integrate with your to-do list, set

it to integrate with your calendar.

And one, one big part of the quick
capture for me is if I'm working

on this thing, I can't control the
brain from going somewhere else.

Right.

That's just what happens.

So if I'm working on, if I'm coding right
now, but then I have a great idea for

the name of, your elf character's father.

And it just gets in there.

Then I just go command space and
I make a note and I get that note

sent to where it needs to go.

I don't see I don't open it up.

I don't open up an app that
I just go blam, go get out.

And then I get back to work.

So I don't forget it.

But it's so important to me to be able
to capture that really quickly, but not

change, focus in what I'm doing, right?.

So I guess that's the, that's the most
ADHD part of it is that if I'm working

on one thing, and something comes along.

I could just so easily be pulled away.

So that if I have something that
will add an input to another app

or another function while I'm in
this app, but not take me away.

That's vital for me, it's
just a hundred percent.

Alison: One day, with our
abundance of free time.

I'm going to get to sit down with you.

And have you walk me through
commands, these shortcuts and teach

me from, I don't know anything up.

Matt: Yeah.

I just know so many things.

Alison: You do.

You do.

Matt: Like that.

Okay, yours what's you're
a little tip for the

Alison: Mine and kind of like you is
always a work in progress, but much like,

uh, the double cleanse in a skincare
has risen in popularity in recent years.

Typically you wash your face first with
an oil based cleanser to get all the

makeup off, and then you cleanse your face
and continue with your skincare routine.

This is going somewhere, I promise.

I've learned that I have to do the
double list, so I have to write

things down on paper with a pen in
order to like, get some level of like

serotonin and satisfaction going.

I have to have the handwritten list.

And then I have to translate
that list into a digital system.

That is how I keep myself accountable.

And so for many years, I would
go back and forth between the two

and some weeks I would be analog
in some weeks I would be digital.

And now I've learned that it helps my
brain to see my Monday dashboard daily.

And I check in with it.

in the morning and get an idea of
what the day's going to look like.

So I'm looking at things at both
a daily and a weekly level easily.

Typically speaking, my to-do
list is more of the daily look

at my digital is more the weekly.

So it's these are the nitpicky little
things I have to get through today.

And then this is the big
picture is the digital outlook.

Matt: Interesting.

Alison: I call it my double list.

Like my double cleanse.

Matt: Double list.

That's pretty great sounding.

I also love pen and paper.

And I've used it back and forth.

I think.

Yeah.

We'll talk about in our
productivity episode.

But I think that is one thing that
you could probably help me with,

which is the review, because I've
also had that same thing, flip

back and forth the love of paper.

And then the searchability
of digital, but.

If I don't review every day.

Then I'm in trouble.

Alison: I feel like you're better at
the end of day review and I'm better

at the beginning of day review.

We just need to help each other with
those things, because I am terrible

about the end of day wrap up.

Matt: I mean, porque no los dos?

Alison: Exactly.

Exactly.

So, yeah, online, to manage weekly.

Pen and paper to manage daily.

Post-it notes.

Matt: Yeah, post-it notes.

Ah, Alison, what a great
idea for a podcast.

How we knocked out so many things.

How meta was it that we ended up talking
about productivity in an episode that

we were crossing things off a list.

Uh,

Alison: so meta..

Matt: Love it.

I love that.

I love it.

oh, there was one, there was one other
thing that I felt like we should mention!

We do have a Patreon.

Don't we.

And for anybody who ever wonders, why
so many podcasters have Patreon accounts

that they want you to give them a
couple of bucks for, it's just because.

Strangely enough podcasting
takes a lot of time and energy.

It's actually a lot of work.

It's really fun.

Really fun, but there's a lot of work.

So, you know, Just throwing a couple
of coins is a fun way to support those

people that, that are working that hard.

I'm not even including us though.

We do work hard, but you
know, people that you support,

they're probably working hard.

Alison: Well, And the actual currency
is very welcome and very helpful, yes.

I also look at, the community,
the attention as some kind

of social currency as well.

Like we really did start this
in the spirit of let's find

cool people to chat with.

And so that's, that was, part two of
our let's start a Patreon was maybe this

could help us hear from you more easily.

Invite you into the dorky
little things that we do.

So we have some ideas and
surprises up our sleeves.

Matt: on them..

Alison: That will be
forthcoming via our Patreon.

So yeah.

It's hard to self promote sometimes

Matt: is.

Alison: But good.

Good on you, Matt.

thought.

Matt: Thanks.

Yeah.

I mean it's.

Yeah.

Really just.

It's just, if you can.

Yeah, we'll still love you 100% the same.

1000% the same.

yeah.

Thanks for listening.

until next week.

Alison: to you then!