Fitz: I just immediately

had the experience of being
on the outs of an in joke

,
and actually

not being aware if it was an in
joke or just watching my friend's

brains meltdown.

Alison: Our brains are
really melty right now.

They are like some stringy ass cheese.

Matt: So that is the truth.

Our brands are definitely melt.

Melted because we just got
back from G-G-G-GaryCon.

GaryCon.

Oh, right.

Noise.

G-G-G-GaryCon.

That actually works.

Making a good noise.

Yeah.

Fitz: I know.

We're trusting Matt with the
soundboard because we can't hear.

Matt: Exactly.

They're like, hmm.

Strange, interesting.

Uninteresting pause.

Um, so for people listening to the show,
we're just gonna make a blanket, not,

you know, apology, not apology, right?

Because we want, uh, to put this
special edition of ADHd20 out.

Uh, ADHd20 being a podcast that
tries to find the intersection

between ADHD&D&D, TTRPGs and TTRPGs.

Alison: We're off to a great start.

Yeah.

This is actually the first episode of
ADHd20 that you and I have recorded

In the same room.

Matt: In the same room.

Yes.

So that's why the sound is
different, and that's why we're not

gonna do a whole ton of editing.

And we're gonna start
this little Time Timer.

Mm-hmm.

Um, right now.

Alison: This is give herself
that this ADHd20 gone wild.

This is feral.

Matt: This is feral.

That's, that's even better.

This is feral.

A…H…Feral…

Alison: Adhd.

Fitz: We can't even say ADHd20.

Wow.

Everybody.

Alison: Welcome to the feral
episode of ADHd20, the FeralWild.

Matt: But yes, we wanted to put this
out as quickly as possible because

while it was fresh in our minds, our
experience at GaryCon, as you can

also hear in my voice, I've got some
kind of cruft, probably from GaryCon.

The Croup-a-ha, Con Crud.

Con Crud.

Alison: We got con
Well, you have Con Crud.

Fitz: Yeah, I can feel it.

I can feel it emerging slowly.

Oh no.

Alison: So, oh no.

The beautiful voice that
you're hearing, that's not

Matt: Mine or Matt's.

Who is the beautiful voice that you're
hearing That's not Mine or Matt's?

It's

Alison: Fitz.

Matt: This is Fitz

Alison: Everybody.

Our lorekeeper live in studio with us.

Yes, it's incredible.

Fitz: I I am starstruck.

Alison: She does exist.

If any, if anybody out there thought that
Matt and I were just being funny and had

an imaginary friend, we don't, we don't.

She's a real, real human.

Matt: She's a real live girl.

Fitz: Can I be honest?

Yeah.

With the audience.

Yeah.

Guys.

They paid me to be here.

I don't know who this Fitz person is.

Alison: Off to a great start?

Matt: Great.

Oh boy.

Yes.

The truth comes out.

There is no Fitz.

She's our Canadian girlfriend.

She's our Canadian Canadian girlfriend.

Alison: Our collective
Canadian girlfriend.

Matt: It's true, it's true.

Fitz: Honored.

Honored to be the imaginary.

Matt: Yes.

We, we had to go, we had
to, uh, Fitz had to join us.

Um, we were, we were hoping that,
uh, brother Evan would be able to

go as well, but no, but we, we,
we, you know, made the best of it.

And we're here today to
talk about GaryCon, 2023.

Mm-hmm.

, which just happened.

We just got back last night and, uh, yeah.

Um, but before we start that, of course,
right, we have to in person D 100.

Someday we'll have a theme
song for just the D 100 table.

Alison: Now are we all gonna
roll or are we just gonna

have our, um, our guest roll?

Matt: I think we should.

I I like that.

I like, our guest should roll.

We're actually stealing this from
an idea that Fitz uh, and Evan have

in their upcoming podcast spoilers.

Fitz: Spoiler alert.

Spoiler alert.

Heard it here first.

I mean, so wait, are we all
gonna answer the same question?

Wild?

Matt: Well, you know, we could do that.

We could answer the same question.

Alison: Same question.

What?

What Feral,

Fitz: Even feral.

Yeah.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna go crazy.

Wait, no, that's not the, they're,

Alison: I guess, listeners, I'm currently
watching Fitz's Brain Break as she

tries to choose dice from Matt's tray.

Look, they're just so,

Fitz: Okay.

Okay.

So many pretty, there we go.

We're gonna go.

These are really lovely.

Okay.

21.

I was really hoping I'd get 69 again.

Matt: Nice.

Nice.

Uh, Fitz, what is one topic that
you researched so thoroughly during

a moment of hyperfocus that you
are now an accidental expert on it?

Fitz: Well, guess what, as the lorekeeper.

I know that this question has been
asked before, but I can't answer it.

Matt: Okay.

So we do it, do we roll again?

Fitz: I can roll again.

Yeah, let's, let's get something new.

Let's get something new.

Let's get something new and fresh.

Alison: Really good job
with your job, though.

Matt: I know.

That was wonderful.

That was wonderful.

Fitz: You know what, I have one job
and it's to be y'all's lorekeeper.

Alison: And friend.

Fitz: 42.

42.

Wait, I do, I just doubled the dice.

Nice.

I crit on this table.

Matt: Oh no.

And this doesn't even
really apply to our guest.

If you could choose to not have
ADHD, would you, why or why not?

Fitz: You know, we can flip,
we'll flip, boom, flip it.

Okay.

If I could choose to not have OCD,
absolutely I would not have it.

It is, it does give you superpowers.

Yeah.

Like ADHD with the hyperfocus
and things like that.

But at its core, it's an
anxiety based disorder.

Yeah.

And you know, it would just be lovely
to not, you know, you know what would

be great would be to go to a Con and be
able to sit on a soft surface without

my brain going, this is contaminated.

So, yeah.

Not to be depressing about it,
but, you know, it would, it

just, it puts like a filter over.

Yeah.

General day-to-day life things that
would be wonderful to not have.

Yeah.

You know?

Matt: I hear you.

Yeah, I hear you.

Fitz: So let's bring the mood.

Alison: Jumping into the deep end.

I love it.

Matt: Yep.

Yep.

Jump in.

Well, I, I guess we could enter this too.

Mm-hmm.

um, uh, if I could not
have OCD, uh, ADHD, sorry.

Kidding.

Uh, if I, if I didn't, yeah,
I guess I would choose.

Here's the thing, it's complicated though.

Mm-hmm.

Because I am fully aware
that ADHD makes me who I am.

Correct.

Yeah.

I'm fully aware that OCD
makes you who you are.

Fitz: It's tough cuz it's your
brain, it's your personality.

So it's your brain and personality's
completely different person without it.

Matt: Lindsay and I, my wife,
who is profoundly deaf, and I

talk about this all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsay would not be Lindsay.

Would we have ever met?

Mm-hmm.

Would she be the same person?

So, no.

So, you know, so that is, it
is, it is a loaded question.

And that is on you two, because
you two came up with that question.

Whoops, oops.

So I don't know.

I mean, I think, I think if
we could take away the parts

that didn't feel as super, yep.

I think that would be real nice.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

, I'm proud.

It's probably not great for me to
take stimulants, all the time.

Fitz: Just as a general rule.

Matt: We'll find out, I guess.

But no, I, you know, yeah.

I think if I could pick and choose.

Yep.

That would be nice.

And Alison, bring us up, please,
for the love of God, help help us.

Alison: Well, interestingly enough, if I
was actually thinking about that as, as

you were talking about, Uh, I would want
to pick and choose the facets of ADHD that

I would like to keep versus leave behind.

Yeah.

And, and so for me, the number one
that I would want to go out the fucking

door that I drive myself crazy with
and know that I drive everybody that

I love crazy with is the impulsivity.

Yeah.

I really wish I could be less
impulsive and l I promise anybody

listening that doesn't know this about
me yet, I don't do it on purpose.

There's no part of me that wants to
be constantly like interrupting and

just like flying off the handle.

I just, you know, it gets in my way a lot.

Yeah.

And I recognize that.

But there are other facets of ADHD that
I've managed to make my entire personality

that I think are darling and that
wouldn't, I wouldn't be Alison without.

So I guess if, if I could pick and choose
impulsivity is gotta go and I'll, I'll

keep some of the other parts, but if
it's all or nothing, I'm gonna keep it.

Matt: Okay.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

I would, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I think so.

I think so.

Yeah.

I would, I would, I would love to.

Get rid of the second guessing.

I would love to get rid of the, of the
inability to do the same thing twice.

Yeah.

In my ever.

Alison: Like you, Fitz, I would get
rid of the anxiety, the things that

crippled me for absolutely no reason
that I, in a saner quieter space, I

recognize as a, you know, a something I
made a really big deal out of nothing.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

But, so maybe we all just wanna get rid
of our anxiety and not our O C D and adhd.

Matt: Sure, yeah.

The comorbid parts.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what we're talking about.

If, if we could, if we could
remove the more comorbid elements

of this, that would be cool.

Alison: But, you know, there's also
something exciting about being impulsive.

I'm never bored.

Right.

I'm, yeah, exactly.

I, I have not known boredom
in decades at this point.

Fitz: What does that like?

Alison: Right.

I love it.

Matt: It's amazing.

That, that I love mm-hmm.

Deeply.

Fitz: I need to pick that up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can I trade?

You want, you guys want a trade?

Like little, like trading cards?

Alison: I mean, what if
we just have the focus?

Like what if we just, you know, okay.

We didn't have to take on yours,
but we could give you some of ours.

Fitz: Oh, so you're saying that
my, I don't have any superpowers?

Matt: I, no, I'm, I'm actually gonna
probably talk about one of your, my

assumed superpowers that you have
uhhuh possibly due to your ocd.

Yeah.

In a minute.

Okay.

Sure.

Okay.

So with that slowly brightening
choo train going uphill?

Fitz: Start, we trauma
dogs and now we're going,

Alison: We have experienced our sheer
trauma and now let us, wonderful.

Good job everybody.

This is gonna be so fun to edit.

Matt: This is gonna be so fun to chaotic.

We're not gonna edit, we're
not gonna edit anything.

Okay.

So we have a little list here.

Um, GaryCon.

So for those of you who
don't know, what is GaryCon?

Alison: GaryCon is an event that
takes place in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin,

which is the home of, uh, Dungeons
and Dragons creator, but not really,

Matt learned some new things.

Matt: He is definitely
one of the creators.

Alison: One of the creators
of Dungeons and Dragons.

Really, the one who brought into
the form as we know it today,

gave it a lot of its shape.

And so his family, his son, Luke
Gygax and, and other members have,

I don't even know for how long.

I should have done my research,
been hosting this convention.

So, uh, how we kind of got here
is, you know, as we've obviously,

so we've just talked about how we
managed to make our, you know, uh,

neuro spiciness our personality.

We also...

2009.

Okay.

Yeah.

We also managed to make Dungeons
and Dragons our entire personality.

So I went to, uh, a Critical Role
Facebook Group, and I said, what

are the best conventions to go to?

And everybody said, if you
wanna play, if that's why you

want to go to a Con, mm-hmm.

Because there's lots of nerd
Cons out there, go to GaryCon.

And it was exactly as described.

Yeah.

Just rooms upon, rooms upon rooms
of people playing not only Dungeons

and Dragons, but a whole wealth
of tabletop role playing games.

Yeah.

And I mean, there were also
board games, card games, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

All kinds of, so there were, there
were scheduled games, and then there

were just like pickup games where
you could just walk up to a table

and say, Hey man, what you playing?

And, and, and learn something new.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

Yeah.

So we decided to, we, we
purposefully set our schedule.

We, we put it on one D&D 5e game
and decided we were gonna play some

other things that we were curious
about or just captured our attention.

Yeah.

Um, so it was a weekend of me doing things
that were far outside of my comfort zone,

um, which was strange and fantastic.

And new.

Yeah.

Fitz: How many, how many games total
did we actually end up playing?

Alison: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Fitz: So about two ish a day?

No.

Alison: Well, yeah.

Cause we, we only played one on Friday.

Friday and Sunday and Sunday.

So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Matt: But yes, the average.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, which is a lot.

Which is a lot.

And, and especially because
we wanted to try new things.

There was a lot of thinking and so every,
every game started off with this period

of, and some of them stayed that way.

Yeah.

Fitz: Some of them didn't, never
quite get over the initial hurdle.

Matt: Yeah.

The whole time.

Um, uh, and so yeah, but we, we
wanted to go as a, as this sort

of a dip our toes in, right.

Because we weren't sure whether
this was gonna be what we wanted.

And we weren't sure if, if, if,
uh, if it was going to be fun.

But I think, uh, the takeaway was that it
was, we had, we had a really good time.

We had a good time together,
we learned a lot of things.

We had some highs and some not as highs.

And, uh, um, so this is what, that's
what we wanted to share today.

Yeah.

Fitz: Well, let's high points.

Matt: Let's high points.

Well, I guess what we should, one of
the high points, of course, because

the other part of this trip was for
Alison to experience on our way to

Lake Geneva to experience the wonder
that is the Mars Cheese Castle.

Alison: Yes.

Everyone, the eighth wonder of the world
the eighth Wonder of the World, the Mars

Cheese Castle in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

Kenosha, Wisconsin.

Which is a story that I won't
tell here, but it is a, a fan

favorite among my group of friends.

And it, it kind of grew a personality
of its own to where I was just,

you know, itching to go to mm-hmm.

Kenosha, Wisconsin to go
to the Mars Cheese Castle.

And when we were looking at this
Con, when we, you know, I, like

I said, I pulled this group and
I said, where do I want to go?

And the front runners were GaryCon, Gen
Con in Indiana, uh, PAX Unplugged, mm-hmm.

people mentioned Emerald City Comic-Con.

Mm-hmm.

Of course, the big
comic-cons and Dragon Cons.

So as we're looking at our list and,
and GaryCon won by a mile, by the way.

Mm-hmm.

Um, Matt was the one who said to
me, you know, you know Alison...

Matt: because she talks
about it all the time.

I do love this, this magical
cheese, the idea of a cheese castle.

If anybody has not seen it, It is
basically a grocery store without produce.

But it is in the shape of
an incredibly well done.

The exterior is of a castle
with, with, um, turrets and,

and, and towers and all, all

Fitz: And an exuberant amount of cheese.

Matt: And it does have an exuberant
amount of cheese and other things,

Fitz: But the cheese is the draw.

Matt: Cheese is the draw for sure.

Alison: We've never seen so many
flavors of cheese curds in your life.

That's true.

Matt: Yeah, that's true.

Alison: We got a lot of cheese.

Matt: Curds.

Lots of cheese curd.

And then another thing, another
winning thing about, uh, a Wisconsin

is that there is at least one
brewery that does not export beer.

Oh, sorry.

Their, their brewery does not
export outside of Wisconsin.

So that's fun for a couple of us.

Alison: And so as Fitz, I don't
wanna, I don't wanna steal your

joke, but you know, we, we quickly
realized that before GaryCon came

Fitz: Dairy Con.

Dairy Con.

Yep.

Yep.

Matt: Boy did we have Dairy Con,
we had Dairy Con, we had Dairy Con.

So, yes.

So we, we had tried to prepare
Alison that, you know, to, to

keep her expectations at a, at
a baseline, a lot of people.

But she was, you still like it.

Fitz: Yeah.

I mean, you and Lindsay, everybody
kept saying both to Alison and myself,

you know, maybe slow your roll.

Yeah.

It, it's, it's just cheese.

Yeah.

Like, it's fine.

But I think people genuinely
didn't understand that it didn't

have to be more than just a castle
with some, was everything met?

Matt: Okay, great.

Yeah.

Fitz: And exceeded expectations actually.

Matt: Good.

Good, good.

Alison: Was it a castle?

Yes.

Was there cheese?

Yes.

Yes.

A hundred.

Done.

Fitz: Did it have lingonberries?

Yes, it did.

Alison: It did.

It actually, it had more than I thought.

Cuz it, it did, it had a lot
of little snackies and cracker.

It has a tavern attached.

Yes.

And you know, the townies drinking
their beer at mm-hmm noon on a Thursday,

like Spotted Cow at the Cheese Castle.

I, I loved it.

I, I actually loved just about
everything about Wisconsin.

I, I, I give Wisconsin five
stars would visit again.

Absolutely loved it.

So, yeah, so that was kind
of our first adventure.

You know, we flew into Chicago.

First up we drive to the Cheese Castle.

We load up with our snacks for the
week and then we, we drove straight

to the Grand Geneva Resort and, and
basically walked in and started playing.

Matt: Sat down and started playing.

Alison: Yeah, so our first session,
we can kind of just break this

down quickly through session.

Yeah.

Uh, was, what was it called?

Matt: It was Dungeon Crawl Classics,
uh, DCC and it is part of the OSR,

the old school Renaissance of, uh, of
Dungeons and Dragons playing, meaning

it's based the OSR games, and there's
a few of them are based on the earlier

editions of Dungeons and Dragons, so your
first edition and your AD&D, and other,

um, and other games surrounding it.

But, but mostly just to get that
style, that like super simple style,

mostly in a dungeon, lots of tables
and rolls and gritty, and you die

easily, and that kind of stuff.

Alison: And so with this table
in particular, we were the only

ones there that had not played it.

Mm-hmm.

And we were playing with some
serious fan boys and girls.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Which I thought I thought was charming.

I loved it.

That was one of my, you know, I
think we'll probably be weaving our

highs and our lows and throughout.

Yeah.

But one of my highs was definitely just
the how excited people were to share

the things that make them excited.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and so, and that was, you
know, the, you could just tell

that the DM really cared about it.

And, and, and we announced ourselves
as we, I said, Hey, this is our

first GaryCon, and this is our
first game at our first GaryCon.

And they were excited
there that well mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, and so what we did at all of
these tables is, is that there were

kind of pre-generated characters.

So we didn't come in with any
of our own characters that

we're very comfortable with.

We took aspects of them, of course.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but we got to play some really
fun I that very first game, I've

always said, I don't have much
interest in playing a cleric, but

I played a cleric in that game, and
it turns out it was a lot of fun.

Yeah.

Fitz: You did.

I was actually very shocked.

I know you grabbed the
sheet because it said

Alison: Matt assigned me the sheet.

Fitz: Oh, okay.

Okay.

So you assigned the sheet
because it was a cheese monger.

Matt: A cheese monger, yeah.

Fitz: As like the background, I guess.

Yep, yep.

When I saw Cleric at the bottom
of the sheet, I was like, AKs

not gonna wanna play that.

She's gonna pawn that off on me.

But like, you, you took it, and you rolled
with it and you did such a wonderful job.

Alison: Aw, it was so fun.

I loved that one.

That was actually, that
being a cleric was fun.

This was all about pushing myself
outside of my comfort zones.

Yeah.

And getting out of that, you
know, place I, I liked to be.

And so I was like, all right, at
first, let's play a Cleric mm-hmm.

and, and Matt did he, he saw Cheesemaker
and he immediately was like, well,

there's no question you have to.

Matt: Yeah.

We'd just come from Dairy Con.

We had to, had to.

Yeah.

And I played a thief.

And you played a,

Fitz: I played an Elf.

Matt: Elf, which in those older games,
the Elf is an actual class, so it's

somewhere between a fighter or cleric, or

Fitz: It felt at least, I don't know if
like, what the other spell options are.

Yeah.

But the ones that had been chosen
for me, weirdly, felt a bit of a

combo between a druid and a warlock.

Hmm.

It had two different patron spells,
or three different patron spells.

It had a Speak with Animal spell
It had a, uh, Charm Person spell.

Mm.

Which I used to, to get a pet, but
it, it definitely felt like the, the

melding of a Druid and a Warlock.

Mm-hmm.

Which was a very
interesting space to be in.

Yeah.

So I don't know if that's what the
original flavor of Elves were, but

that's at least based on the spells
and everything that were picked.

For me, that's where it landed.

Matt: I don't remember, but I think
it was kind of, the idea was "Elf-y".

So maybe the elves were kind
of more Woodlands, magic fae.

So that would make sense.

Yeah.

Both of those things would make sense.

Alison: Uh, so big shout out to
Trevor, who was our DM for that one.

The name of the, um, and had written
the, and had written the module,

it was called The Hangman's Garden.

Mm-hmm.

. It was very, you know, old
school dungeon crawl-y.

So we just kind of had like different
rooms we were going through.

And it was funny cuz we're us, you know,
we, we didn't choose to fight every single

Matt: 45 minutes to go through a door.

Yeah.

We talked to every single

Alison: and we, we, we, yeah.

We kept, we were amusing the others
at our table cuz instead of fighting

and killing, we were collecting
new friends at every point.

One of the guys got so mad
because I went through this whole

ordeal to like rescue a prisoner.

Cause I wasn't gonna leave her.

Right.

I'm a cleric.

I know.

You know.

Matt: And you could tell he
was like, he was, why are you

trying so hard to do this?

That's just the way we roll.

That's okay.

I'm sorry.

Fitz: No, no randos left behind.

Matt: No randos.

Fitz: No randos or monsters left behind.

Alison: And you could tell, you know,
in the end, and that's one thing I

was very curious about going into
GaryCon, was how is this gonna work?

Mm-hmm.

Knowing that we're all agents of
chaos and things never take the amount

of time you think they're going to.

And so you could just kind of tell
that the, the GMs, especially those

who have been doing us for a while,
were able to kind of jump to the

place they needed to to get us out.

The good ones.

Yeah.

The door on time.

And that, that's what Trevor had to do,
unfortunately, we could tell we didn't

make it to all the dungeon rooms and we
raised a little bit too much time getting

through doors and making new friends.

Matt: But the fun thing about that
though is that if we were to pick

up DCC Dungeon Crawl Classics and
his module, we could play it again.

We would be, be totally different.

Mm-hmm.

it'd be totally diff.

Fitz: It would, because I know that
there are rooms that we did not hit.

There were encounters that
we didn't actually fight.

That we could have fought.

That we could have fought.

Yep.

There were, I'm sure there was
treasure that we didn't, there was

a, there's a, my mysterious door.

Yeah.

At the end, end of the, or the middle
of the endless circle of, of, yep.

Mm-hmm.

Jail doors that something was behind.

There was something, so
there's, there was stuff,

Matt: There was stuff that,
we'll, we'll, we'll go back.

Maybe someday.

We'll, we'll do it.

Yeah.

I thought I was not playing a spellcaster,
but I thought that the game itself, one

thing I really thought was neat, and y'all
didn't necessarily agree, seemed like,

but one, one of the cool concepts of spell
casting is, number one, you have to roll.

There's a, there's a chance
that a spell will not.

Mm-hmm.

Will not, uh, even work.

But this game, depending on where
you rolled to make it work, had

different layers of effects.

The higher, higher the number, the,
the, the more effect the spell.

And I kind of loved,

Alison: I loved that actually.

Matt: Oh, you did love it.

Yeah,

Fitz: I loved it too.

It was the only reason I, um,
wasn't as exuberant in the moment

was just that it was confusing me.

Matt: It, it's, it was a lot.

Yeah.

A lot.

Fitz: Just because we had sit, like
it was a lot to read having sat

down and you're trying to move fast.

But luckily since we were the only
ones who hadn't played before.

Yeah.

The others sort of knew how it worked and
knew what those threshold numbers were.

Right.

So if I said, you know, I just rolled a
13, then, you know, the gentleman next

to me, I think his name was also Matt,
I think so, um, was like, oh, well,

hold on, let me help you with that.

Yeah.

So there was collaboration to help people
get their roles into certain zones to make

it more or less ef Well, more effective.

Yeah.

Or when it's not worth it, which I'm sure
we would pick up how we played it longer.

It was just that since we were
trying to move quickly, I was just

sort of getting a little confused,
but I lo I loved that concept.

Mm-hmm.

I loved that it could fail.

I loved that if you really rolled well,
that something amazing could happen.

And I love the scalability of it.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Because at a lower level, mm-hmm.

you're gonna be hidden in similar zones,
so you're gonna be in the lower effects of

that spell how much you can actually do.

But that doesn't mean you couldn't
accidentally roll really amazing.

Or your whole party helped you by
adding things to buff the number

and that in a Hail Mary moment, you
couldn't just have this surge of power.

Yeah.

And pop off a really high
level version of that spell.

Yeah.

So I love the scalability as you
level as a character as well.

Yeah.

You know, there's something
really flexible and lovely about

the unpredictability of that.

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is, which is a, a DCC
specific, like that is not something

that was in AD&D, so that's cool.

I I, I definitely left going.

I'm gonna get it and I'm
going to, I would play it.

Yeah.

Cool.

Alison: We probably won't have time to
go bit by bit through every single game.

The next one we played was Pathfinder,
which we don't have, I don't

think a lot to say about that one.

Matt: Pathfinder One, in fact.

Yeah.

First edition, which is basically Dungeons
and Dragons 3.5 edition and yeah, we were,

Alison: So here's where we can talk about
some of the challenges that we met Yeah.

At the con as people
who were neurodivergent.

Mm-hmm.

So you're in a room with a lot of other
tables, a lot of distractions, a lot

of things going on, a lot of noise.

It can be hard, it can be hard to
both hear, and then also process

because there was just so much
noise in space happening around you.

Mm-hmm.

And with a game like Pathfinder.

There, there was just so much information.

It was just this onslaught of information
that my brain literally could not keep up.

So that was a brain melt moment for me.

It was for sure.

It was.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And one of the lower, you know, where
I wish I was in a quieter room, I

wish I'd had a little bit more time.

That was where I felt like I was not
served playing a pre gen character

because everything was new to me.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and that was, that was
one of the first places I felt

like a, an ADHD anxiety flare.

Matt: Yeah, for sure.

Me too.

Me too.

And, um, uh, it did not help, I will say
it did not help that, that that particular

Game Master was not as prepared.

Right.

Uh, which is, which was also
very, very distracting for me.

Mm-hmm.

Personally, mm-hmm.

Because I, you know, I sat
down, and really wanted to

learn from all these mm-hmm.

I mean, this is the most playing
I've ever done in my life.

Right.

Nice.

So, So I wanted to learn from these,
these people who have been doing this.

And so I, I got real distracted when,
when they were not on top of their game.

Um, and, and you know, we're gonna give
them all the, all the credit in the world.

We're Because you know, some,
some of these people signed up

for multiple tables during a day.

And I'm sure that they were better
prepared for some games than others.

But it still was, that was a tough one.

Yeah.

That was a tough one to get through.

Cause that's,

Fitz: It could be intimidating being a DM
for knowing that you have four hours to

play a game or two hours to play a game
or however long you've set for yourself.

And you need to teach people who
admittedly don't know the system.

Yeah.

And get them through an adventure.

Yeah.

In that time allotment.

Yeah.

Because you know the way the schedules
are, they may have another game

after that that they have to get to.

So you really want to give them

Alison: Well, and people
are coming into that table.

Yeah.

You know, so you literally have to give
up your space within the allotted time.

Right.

Fitz: So there is, there's
definitely a challenge to it, and

I'm sure it's intimidating, so

Matt: Yes.

But I will say this, that there are
certainly times when the three of us play

and I am more or less prepared, right?

Yeah.

Because we're friends and sometimes
winging it can be fun, but, you know,

you probably know when I'm less prepared
than other times and you probably know

when I'm more prepared than other times.

Mm-hmm.

to, to play.

And, and my thought is that
there, there are a number of these

conventions, but this one was kind
of billed, the build for this.

Yeah.

And, and it could be adhd, but I would
never go into a situation like that.

It not knowing every freaking
thing about what I was going to do.

Alison: And it's a control, the
controllable situation too, because,

you know, we, we pre-register
for most of these sessions.

Yeah.

And so there's descriptions of
what you'll be doing and there are

levels at which you'll be playing.

So you know exactly the game.

Exactly the edition.

And there are levels.

So there are, you know, no experience
needed up through, like, please

be well versed in this system.

Right, exactly.

And this was billed as
no experience needed.

And you know, maybe that wasn't the case.

Right.

But So then, so then bill it
correctly, bill, bill it correctly too.

You would be better served.

We only have two hours
to get through this.

Mm-hmm.

So we're gonna be moving, you know,
please be on time and have a character

in mind and you know, we'll dig right in.

So yeah, that was, that was our first day.

But still, uh, I think we
came away swinging and happy.

Fitz: And Yeah.

And combine, just combine that, I
think with, you know, maybe one of the,

the, I feel like the main thing that
we struggled with, over the course of

the weekend, regardless of the game
or how well the table meshed or how

well the DM was able to accomplish
whatever the goal was for that session.

The, the thing that was hardest,
I think for us as neuro divergent,

neuro spicy folk mm-hmm.

was just the general distraction, yes.

The noise level.

Yeah.

Um, there was, there was one moment, I
don't know which day it was, where I had

to be like, can we find somewhere where
the decibel level is just reasonable?

Reasonable?

Because the anxiety, I
could feel the heart rate

Matt: In between games.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You had, you had to find a,
a quiet space to We all did.

We all did.

Fitz: Yeah.

Because it was, it, the lovely thing
is it's a con full of just tables

and tables and tables of games.

Mm-hmm.

The less lovely part is that
all those tables create noise.

Mm-hmm.

in a small space and so hard.

Matt: You don't want anyone to not have
the level of excitement that they're

used to and that they want to share.

And yet you all the
other tables also Yeah.

Can't hear when you're
having that level excitement.

So we, we kept wondering why
there couldn't be dividers, you

know, basic dividers with some,
you know, sound baffling or, uh,

you know, just little bits, but

Alison: Yep.

Matt: That's not

Fitz: Something, some feedback.

Matt: Yeah.

Just, yeah.

So if we can, yeah.

That would be one thing because, uh, like
you said, it's an accessibility issue.

Yep.

And you know, this, this is a, this
is not an accessible event, there

was not one nod to anyone that might
have had any disability that I saw.

Really?

Yeah.

Not, not a, not a caption experience.

Not, not.

But that's okay.

You mean, I mean that's okay and the,

Alison: Is it?

Matt: I don't know that it's, I don't
know if it's okay, but it's something

that we could, like, I don't know
that we could give feedback to and

say, look, this is an important thing.

There's a lot of people who, who would
like to, you know, be a part of this,

that it's not very easy for them to do.

So.

Alison: Then came Mausritter.

Matt: And then we played
Mausritter the next day.

Speaking of cheese, speaking of
cheese, speaking of cheese, we

got, that's kind of the theme.

Mm-hmm.

Alison: And that one was fun
cuz we weren't, so in the first

couple of sessions we were just
kind of handed character sheets.

Right.

This one we actually got to roll
dice to build our characters.

Mm-hmm.

And the dice determined who we would play.

And I remember looking at the sheet
going, I hope I don't get that one.

And it was the one that Fitz rolled.

Because I thought to myself, I
have no idea how I would play that.

Yeah.

And Fitz played it so beautifully.

Yeah.

Like, it, it just, it it, it Fitz… so
you're, if you, I don't wanna spoil it.

Fitz: Yeah.

Well and talk about playing
outside of your comfort zone

because one of the options that
you could land on was a beekeeper.

So, you know, if having
given the choice mm-hmm.

Nothing, I would not have seen
anything else on the page as an option.

My eyes would have seen that, locked
onto it and just grabbed for it.

Yeah.

Nothing else matters.

Right.

Because that is my comfort zone
is being some sort of bee related.

I mean, it's my dream in life
is to be a goddamn beekeeper.

Of course, then I would reach for that.

Right.

But I rolled, I rolled "test subject".

Alison: Yeah.

That's just dark.

Matt: So just, so the concept of
Mausritter, I mean, it's kind of

in the name, but the idea is that
it is, it is D&D, but you are mice.

And you are, so instead
of dragons, it's cats.

And instead of, you know,
armor it's thimbles.

Yeah.

Instead of armor, thimbles instead
of swords, it's needles instead of

Orcs, it's, uh, rats or something.

Owls.

Owls.

Owls.

Yeah.

Owls.

And, and so it's very adorable and
it's, but it's a much simplified

system based on Into the Odd
and it has a lot of humor in it.

And one of the humorous things in my mind
was the fact that you could play a test

subject, a test mouse, subject mouse.

So Fitz created this whole

Fitz: I I I created, uh, Twitch.

Twitch, the test test mouse, who
escaped from a L'Oreal facility,

and was terrified of soap.

Yeah.

Yes, exactly.

Alison: She was, she did, she's a
talk about a triggered response.

That was, but it's fun.

She made her eye twitch.

Meanwhile, guess who rolled the beekeeper?

Oh, no.

Twas me.

Two people, two people are, and there
were like 20 different options, and

somehow two of us rolled a beekeeper.

Mm-hmm.

So I played sweet little Peppercorn.

Peppercorn.

I, I went into a market and I, I started
out with a coaster from the bar and

I traded up and, and, and my, our DM
awarded me with a a with heavy armor.

Yeah.

Um, and it was, and then what were you,

Fitz: So remember you
had a, you had a beetle.

Matt: Yeah.

You, oh yes.

I was actually a beetle herder.

Beetle herder.

Yeah.

So I had a, I had a pet, had
pet, short for Charlotte.

I had a pet, a Beetle was a sidekick.

My hireling.

Alison: And Mausritter was
as adorable as it sounds.

Yeah, it really is.

And this was when we
highly, highly recommend.

Yeah.

When we were putting the schedule
together, I asked Matt and Fitz

if they had any, any, you know,
TTRPGs that were on their wishlist.

Mm-hmm.

and several that you gave me,
Matt, were not even anywhere.

No.

And and it surprised me cuz like,
you know, there were a couple things

that caught my eye, but there'd
only be like one playing of it.

So we did have a hard time
getting into a couple games.

Mm-hmm.

So Mausritter was one
Matt mentioned by name.

So I had it on our sheet and I
was worried cuz there was only

one session and the whole Con.

Yeah.

But I was delighted we were
able to get into and I would

happily play Mausritter again.

Yeah.

So that one.

Fitz: A joy, a delight.

Yeah.

And the most adorable thing.

Matt: And great for kids.

It's, I mean, it's not a kid's, right?

It doesn't have to be a kid's
game, but, but if you have

children, I would say yeah.

It's easier, it's, uh,
it's a lot of role playing.

There's not a ton of dice.

There's a lot of story that you can add.

I mean, the whole concept is mice just
go into a thing, a building a Yeah.

A a a a human's house.

Yeah.

And they, they have to maybe they
just a lot of sneaking around.

It's fun.

Yeah.

It's fun.

Um,

Alison: Up next on our schedule
was we purposefully did allow

ourselves one D&D 5e game.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Um, and you know, I say purposefully
because we wanted to play some of what

we knew, but not all of what we knew.

Yeah.

And, and so this was the
one, while a lot of fun.

So I actually did get to play.

So I played a, I chose a Rogue,
this was one that we had pre gen

characters and I, but I'd never
played the subclass Assassin.

Mm-hmm.

and hot.

Damn.

My, my dice were on my side, and
I was like a killing machine.

So spoiler alert friends, I
will be rolling up an assassin

rogue in my near future.

But this was one of the places where
like, if we start to talk about some of

the low points, one of the things that
we noticed at several of the tables was.

And this is a hard thing to put on
a volunteer GM who is giving their

heart and their soul to running
games for strangers at a conference.

But there was an overall
lack of table management.

Mm-hmm.

Coupled with you have strangers who
all play different styles of games.

And so like in our games,
we're very role play heavy.

We've already joked it takes us 45
minutes to go through the door because

we want to ask what's my motivation?

Mm-hmm.

With which style do I walk
through the door, you know?

Um, and, and we recognize that
not everybody is like that.

And so at our 5e table, we had
a very mixed bag of play styles.

Mm-hmm.

and neuro divergence.

Which was very distracting because,
you know, we had some people just

wanted to chitter through everything,
but not in a role playing way.

Yeah.

Right.

And so we were trying to, Yes, And the
hell out of a lot of this, our, our

goal in this game was to get a betrothed
bride to her rich count for marriage.

And so, of course the three of us
chaos gremlins were like, but why?

Yeah.

Does she wanna get married?

Does she even like this guy?

So we're trying to like, talk the bride.

Fitz: We, we gave her an opportunity
to escape into the woods with us.

Yeah.

Like we're trying in every way
possible to just make a story that

seems fun and make sense to us.

But that was not the vibe to the table.

Alison: That was not the vibe.

Yeah.

The first thing that,
you know, drag him along.

The first thing that GM had
mentioned, you know, she's role

playing the bride, is that the
bride wanted to go to a card-hall.

Mm-hmm.

. Well, I'm playing a rogue, I hear card
hall, I want a slide of hands some shit.

So I'm like, we're going.

And, and it was, I could tell that
others at the table were frustrated

cuz they were like, no, we're getting
paid to go on this adventure, you know?

Yeah.

And that was one of the first, you
know, record scratch moments of

like, oh God, I've mistepped, like,
these people don't want to go off and

role play a, a, a seedy card hall.

Right.

They just want to get on the road
and find the foes on the adventure

we're supposed to be having.

Yeah.

Fitz: Neither, neither
play style is wrong.

No, it's absolutely, some people just
want to get an adventure, do that

adventure, get some loot, you know, feel
the accomplishment of just doing the

thing that was on the, the job board.

Mm-hmm.

For that at that local tavern.

And that is enough to bring
them satisfaction because

there's game mechanics that they
can crunch and loot to find.

The way that we find joy is, is not that.

Mm-hmm.

It's different.

It's, it's just different.

It's just different.

And neither play style is wrong.

No.

It just, I don't think it is an
entirely wonderful time when you

get two groups of people from, you
know, one from each play style and

smash 'em on a table and say, go.

Yeah.

Yep.

You know, the, the goals are
different for each group and each

group is going to annoy the other.

Matt: Yes.

Right.

Right.

Yep.

Right.

And I, I think this is where it became
very clear to b to all of us that, it,

it needs to be said that, that Gary
Gygax and, Arneson invented the game.

And so there's a lot of, there's a
lot of Gary Gygax fanboys mm-hmm.

That are at this, conference
that knew these original games.

Gentlemen in their
fifties, sixties, mm-hmm.

uh, that had been playing
this game since they were 10.

Mm-hmm.

and earlier.

And, uh, it's something that
they do with their, with, you

know, the drinking buddies.

Yep.

And it's not an emotional thing.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

it's, it's, it's, it's a
way to express themselves.

doesn't need to be therapeutic.

Yeah.

And the other thing of course,
which that means then if I am

a 50 year old that has adhd.

I am diagnosed as such.

Yeah.

But there will be a lot of Gentlemen
and, and women, uh, with ADHD and

other neurodivergent brains that are
undiagnosed and they don't realize this.

And so that was one thing that we kind of
hit us in the face was like, oh my gosh.

One thing that's happening here is
that there's a ton of people with

ADHD and maybe on the spectrum
of autism that will never know.

That don't need to know that.

Yeah.

They, they, they're living their lives
wherever they're living them and, and,

you know, have loving wives and children
and, and this is the game that they play.

But we see these traits
in these people Yeah.

Who are like, oh my god, my dude.

That's, wow.

That's, that's what it's like
to, to not be aware of your self.

Yeah.

Not to be aware of your brain.

And, uh, again, it would've
been very easy for me to not be

diagnosed with ADHD, I think.

Mm-hmm.

So I'm not knocking them.

But it, it answered a lot of
like, what is going on here?

Yeah.

For us.

Yeah.

And especially in that game,
we, we were saddled with some

people who were perfectly nice.

Okay.

Um, but yeah, like you said,
just not, not our crew.

Fitz: Perfectly nice, perfectly
passionate about the game.

Yes.

Just in a different way
than we are, number one.

And number two, they had, um, I feel
like behaviors is a strong word, but

I don't know another, another term
for it, but just the way that they

sort of exist in their own space.

Yeah.

And in their own body.

Did so in such a way that was then
triggering to ADHD tendencies.

Yes.

In the others who are maybe.

It's like more aware.

It's a, it's a cyclical thing, right?

It was, yeah.

Alison: One, like one of my
things with ADHD because I have

impulsive and not inattentive right.

Is that I can be very
focused until I'm not.

Mm-hmm.

And once, once I am pulled
out of it, game over for me.

And, and I definitely at certain tables
throughout the weekend, like once I'd

hit my max threshold of tolerance mm-hmm.

mm-hmm.

I then couldn't, I
couldn't get back into it.

Right.

Right.

I, there's nothing I could do to
reinvigorate and replug myself back in.

Yeah.

Um, so,

Matt: And my, and, and , my, my issue
was I was struggling so, so hard to

focus on the, the, the game and the
Dungeon Master of what she was trying

to do and say that by the, at the
end of that I almost passed out.

Yeah.

I was so exhausted.

Yeah.

Mentally just crushed.

Cause I was just using
every ounce of my being.

Alison: Well, you, you said it too,
we're also very used to each other

and like have a comfort level.

Mm-hmm.

, and again, comes with us being friends
and not strangers of like, I know

when either of you say to me, and
not that you would ever say it this

way, but like, you're at a 10 and
I need you somewhere around a six.

You would never say that to me that way.

Right.

But, but you can communicate
that to me of like, the energy

is overwhelming me right now.

Right.

Um, is there anything that can be done?

I can go take a walk kind of a thing.

Yeah.

And, and, and, and we did, we did not have
the free space to necessarily do that.

Right.

Which, you know, which, which we all felt.

Fitz: Yeah.

Yeah.

I only hit overload for sure,
once, maybe one or two other times.

I, I was starting to be
like, Do I need to miss?

Because the problem is, is if you
need to step away from the game,

you're missing some of the game.

And this is the only opportunity.

Mm-hmm.

it's, it's, it's harder to be like, can
we take a five if it's our home game?

Because we have an infinite
amount of time to deal with this.

We can, even if we stop right now, we
have next week, we have the week after.

Yeah.

But when you're in a one shot like
this, you gotta, you gotta, you

gotta either power through or accept
that you're gonna miss something.

Yeah.

And the fear of missing out is strong.

It is.

Oh, it is.

Alison: It is.

So that leads us to Saturday night.

Yes.

Yes.

Matt: Luckily, luckily

Alison: Beautiful cherry on top of a

Fitz: A gorgeous,
gorgeous Saturday evening.

A

Alison: Gorgeous evening, gorgeous.

Fitz: In so many ways.

Alison: And this one was
not even on my radar.

And I'm so thankful that Matt saw this
and immediately went, wait, wait, wait.

Let's get that on our schedule.

So Matt, you wanna tell
us a little bit about it?

Matt: Yes.

So, in researching this game in
the last three years, there have

been certain things about the fifth
edition of D&D that I do actually

miss from the osr from the old school.

Mm-hmm.

Things mm-hmm.

, the, there's a little bit
of stakes that I miss.

Mm-hmm.

there's a, I love the role, the role
playing, I love the storytelling

element and I love the ease, but
there's always a, there's a little

bit that I've kind of wondered.

So I would go scouring YouTube and, and
the inter internet in general and try

to find others that felt the same way.

Mm-hmm.

And in my research, I came across,
uh, a fellow, uh, that his channel

is called the Dungeon Coach.

And immediately, uh, watching a few
videos, I'm like, this is the guy, this is

the guy, this is, he's saying everything
that I feel could be adjusted in 5e to

make me per personally happier, right?

Mm-hmm.

So I became, uh, you know, a, a big
fan of his and, and, uh, started

supporting him, the Patreon.

And he, and he's released a book, um,
with a lot of his, his homebrewed, um,

adjustments to 5e, the 5e game, how to
play 5e in a, you know, and, and he, he

made sure that all of these different
rules were modular so you could pick and

choose, which I always thought was nice.

Anyway, his energy is really bright
and up, and he's a young guy and he's,

um, he's a, you know, he was a, a, he,
he was a high school teacher and, uh,

and a coach, and then he, you know, but
he just, you could tell that he loves,

loves, loves this game, loves role
playing, loves being a, a Dungeon Master.

. And so, uh, when the, when the OGL, um,
hullabaloo happened recently, he said, I,

I, I love 5e, I love Dungeons and Dragons.

I'm not, not going to, but there is
some riding on the wall and I'm going

to take a crack at building my own RPG.

So he started talking about
that in, in his channel, and

I said, yeah, man, go, go, go.

Um, and he brought it to GaryCon
to be an Alpha Play test, and

I kind of thought, because this
was, this was a few months ago.

Mm-hmm.

This was really just a few months ago.

Uh, and I kind of thought that we would
be playing something that was basically

5e with a few of his adjustments, maybe
change a couple of things here and there.

But no man, he has really, uh,
Alan has really, really built

a beautiful, uh, It's very new.

It's very new.

There's a lot of stuff.

He's literally working on it right now.

Mm-hmm.

, but, uh, some amazing things.

And I'd say by far it was our
favorite game of the, of the Con.

Oh, for sure.

And just so impressed with him
and his energy and his, his talent

and his, his drive and passion.

So we got to play this very
small session with him.

Uh, and actually another
YouTuber, um, the, the DM Lair,

his name is Luke, uh, DM's Lair.

Uh, also a great talent, um, scene.

Those, those two are pals.

And, and we got to try out this
new game, which is nothing like 5e.

Really.

Fitz: Well, and it's interesting
because it's nothing like 5e except

if you've played 5e you absolutely
have enough familiarity Yes.

With it that you can pick up and go.

Yeah.

Yep.

You know, I did not feel that
much friction between being handed

the new rules, the new character
sheet, the new spell system, and

being able to just let loose.

Yeah.

Alison: Yep.

Yeah.

Alan, you could tell
he's a former teacher.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, you know, he did a, an absolute
magnificent job of leading us through.

And so he gave us, they were pre-generated
characters, but that we still had

a little bit of finagling to do.

So he was able to walk us through
the rolling for the stats and help

us understand the character sheet.

Fitz: Well, it wasn't even, I, you
know, I would go as far and say

that it wasn't pre gen characters.

It's true.

You know, he let us pick where
to put our ability scores.

Yes, you're right.

And the ability score choosing
was actually quite simple.

Alison: So it was, it was
pre gen race class combos.

Yes.

So like I was handed a sheet
where I was playing a tiefling,

uh, type of a wizard, a Psion.

Right.

And that, yes, that was
the only pre gen part.

So it came with like a, a spell that was
one of like a, it was a tiefling trait.

Matt: And that's probably
more in the simply the alpha.

Yeah.

Than, you know, when he
for sure fills it all out.

For sure.

You'll have far more choices, but

Alison: Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Go for.

But I like that.

Yeah.

Kind of to your point of like there
was enough of enough rails for us to

stay on, but I found the whole thing
because I play 5e, very intuitive.

Yeah.

Yes.

There were other things at other
tables where I was given instructions

and I just had to keep asking the
same questions over and over again.

A, cuz I don't know that
we were well taught Yeah.

In the beginning and then
and, and then two because what

we were doing was confusing.

Yeah.

And this was neither, it was
both intuitive and well taught.

Yes.

Yes.

So everything he said made sense.

One of my favorite things about
Alan, besides his just general

warmth and friendliness, Alan, we
are all fan girls and boys, by the

way, if you're listening mm-hmm.

was, he wanted us to break it.

Mm-hmm.

And I love that sense of playfulness.

Like that is why you play test.

Yeah.

Matt: He started off by
saying, look, I've had it.

I, I said, how, how, how are,
have the other sessions gone?

Because he, he did a few play tests.

He said they've all gone so well.

Not one person that said anything
disparaging about this game.

Alison: We said, game on.

Matt: I want some honest,
constructive, I want to know

anything that does not quite work.

So we did, we did give him some of that.

So

Fitz: we, yeah.

Like I specifically, we asked him
what had not been play tested.

Mm-hmm.

. And we wanted those things.

Wanted those things.

We took those things.

So I, I nabbed his Cleric, cuz
that's, it's, I'm familiar with it.

But no one had played it and
this was different enough.

And boy did I try to break it.

Alison: Yeah.

Well we watched Fitz break Alan's
brain with how masterfully she did

something he, he wanted her to do,
but he said nobody had ever done.

And it's cuz Fitz is very good
at being analytical and just

reading step by step by step.

And you can be a very linear thinker.

Mm-hmm.

. And so we wa well, but if this is
happening, then this must happen.

And he, he goes, yeah.

And if that and that's
happening, then this can happen.

And you're watching him.

Yeah.

Like a kid on Christmas morning.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know, and she did she got this
like just hellacious heal down because

she just like, and I think that was Yes,
it was logic you were reading, you know,

Fitz kept saying, oh, I was just reading.

But it was intuitive for you.

It was

Matt: And that was that, by the way,
that callback, that was the, that

was the OCD magic power that, yep.

That I, I think.

It's so impressive to me.

Yeah.

Fitz: Watching you do that.

So, I will admit, my one OCD superpower
is that I, I not like, it's not a, I

do not have a photographic me memory
or whatever that's called where you

remember what you've seen mm-hmm.

but I know exactly where
everything I own is.

Yeah.

I know where every paperclip I own lives.

I know.

Like, wow.

I know where everything I own lives.

And if it's not in that spot,
something has gone wrong.

Yeah.

Where,

Alison: What is that, what is that like?

Oh my God.

Fitz: There've been, you know, there
have been times where I call home,

I'm, I'm out and about or whatever.

Hey, could you grab my bathing suit?

I want the green one that's in,
it's in my top drawer at the

back all the way to the left.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Like I know exactly where these things
are and where they're folded and Wow.

So when it comes to that character sheet,
I was very intentional of reading the

spots that were, significant to me
cuz they're based on what I had chosen,

some parts of the sheet were irrelevant.

Mm-hmm.

. So I didn't look at those and I
just knew, you know, okay, this is,

this is where these things live,
this is where these things live.

And to then, I didn't memorize anything.

You just know where to look
on the sheet when you're doing

so, when you're doing it.

Yep.

And so I intentionally spammed
that, that that particular role

was, I knew that I could spam it
and so I wanted to try to break it.

I wanted him to say, I'm
gonna have to fix that.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Yeah.

Yeah.

But it was, it was, you know, one of
the things that we had said that was,

you know, we, and we get not the space
and the time for it always, but we had

felt some lack of Yes, And at various
other tables throughout the mm-hmm.

and, and again, it's,
it's a time constraint.

Yeah.

It's a different play style.

Yeah.

But this was one of the first tables
where, so first of all, we were playing

with Luke and I thought he was Hilarious.

Yes, it truly is.

It was.

So, you know, and so he he was impulsive.

Yeah.

Both he and his character, right.

And so there was just, it was,
everything was done in the

spirit and elements of fun.

It was nothing, but Yes, And, yeah, I, I
actually, so, you know, Matt and I were

talking and I, I think I'm gonna roll
up a version of this character because

I liked playing it so very much mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And in this world.

And, and, and we told Alan, you
know, we gave him some really candid,

honest feedback at the end of it.

Um, but we also were like, if you need
continuous play, because that's one thing

he needs to continue to play test it.

Mm-hmm.

You know, out of one shots
to see like, does it scale?

So as you move up through the levels, do
the things you think are gonna happen, do

they happen or do, are you just suddenly
level six and completely overpowered?

Yeah.

Fitz: He did admit, he self-admittedly
said, I think at level five this is

going to break, this is going to, . Yeah.

But you know, he also put on us a few
goal, like cuz we asked him what hasn't

been done, what needs to be tested?

And he said nobody's
hit zero hit points yet.

And our dear Matt said, I can do this.

Alison: Yes.

Matt: I accept that challenge.

Fitz: Not only did you
do it once, You did,

Alison: you did it twice.

Overachiever.

I know.

And so your, your class that you
played was new to the system.

It was called a warlord.

Matt: A Warlord, yeah.

Yeah.

Hardcore.

It was a non-magic casting.

I loved his magic system, by the way.

I love the concept of mana points.

Mm-hmm.

. But, uh, it was a martial class,
but it had elements of Bard.

Yeah.

Like, like, you know, sort of being
able to rally readying the field

and playing the field and bringing
people up and giving them, you know,

Alison: And you did that
beautifully with me.

There was a point where my character
was very much in danger about to

be beaten to death by a giant ogre.

And you were able to kind
of come over and use Yeah.

Your powers to, to flip places with me.

Yeah.

So you could die instead of me.

Fitz: It was almost like you
could do area, like, or or batter,

battlefield support, an area of effect.

Things without access to magic.

Right.

Without magic, with all martial-based
Uhhuh and just like commanding

presences and things like that, that
you were able to manipulate the field.

Yeah.

To make it more beneficial to the party.

Matt: Yeah.

And, and, and it's, I definitely urge
everybody listening that, that plays this

game to go and, you know, start, you know,
start following him and, and get, get on

the ground floor as far as like learning
this thing, cuz it is, it is really cool.

He has taken, he has taken the elements
of 5e in other games that he really

loves and I think is in the process of
putting them together in such a fun way.

And, and, and a really, it is, it
is both slightly simpler in some

ways, but also, you know, he's a math
teacher so there are points there

and the point system is really cool.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's really cool.

Yeah.

And, uh, and, and trying to differentiate
a Bard that like a, a, a war-casting Bard

from a martial character or a barbarian
and the points, you know, it's, it's

just,

Alison: I'm gonna say something shocking.

Okay.

So both Matt and Alan, and as
we've discussed on this podcast,

are not fans of multi classing.

Matt: We're not fans of multi classing.

Alison: And I actually loved
in this module that you're

either martial or Magic mm-hmm.

and that like, it's, the multi
classing is not a thing, but the

things that you're gonna get good
at, you're gonna get really Yeah.

Really good at.

Fitz: Yeah.

Well, let's talk about fixing the
multi-class thing, because I accidentally

feel like I learned something and
I'm, I'm sad I learned it, which

is, So in our Thursday night game
with Tey, which has been mentioned

a gajillion times on this show,

Alison: We need a Tey sound effect.

I know, I know.

Matt: You need Tey sound effects.

I'll come up with one.

Fitz: Yeah.

Pick out a good one.

But you know, in that long
running campaign I played

a multi-class Monk Cleric.

Yeah.

Which was interesting.

Super fun.

But it definitely meant that I was
not super great at either of them.

Yeah.

You know, I did that at the
detriment, at the overall

functionality of that character.

Yeah.

Just cuz I wanted to
fuck around and find out.

And I had a great ass time doing it.

Mm-hmm.

Well, when we were building these
characters, obviously I said I would do

the Cleric because nobody had play tested
it yet, and I'm pretty familiar with them.

So I was like, I can break
this, I'm confident I can do it.

And he, one thing that he has introduced
with the way that the ability scores work

in this game, and I hope he keeps it.

This is the one thing that, out of
all the new changes, um, that he did,

I thought this was the improvement.

Mm-hmm.

was that your class or race do not change
or are dependent on your ability scores.

Mm-hmm.

So I very specifically, I play,
I chose his known race and I very

specifically made my intelligence
and wisdom scores the dump stats.

Or the, he, he clumped them into one.

Mm-hmm.

, maybe it was just intelligence, but I
purposely dumped it because in 5e, you

need to have a high wisdom if you're
gonna be able to function as a cleric.

Right.

I put all my points into dexterity.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, this little thing,
doesn't, super dumb, but can is mobile

and can get around the field, can
get to anybody and use her nimble

little fingers to fix her friends.

And it worked.

Yeah, it worked.

It just worked.

There was nothing about having those those
specific stats that are so necessary in

these other games like Pathfinder and
D&D where your class is so dependent

on your stats in, you know, so as
a Paladin you need specific things.

As a Barbarian you
gotta be strong as hell.

But in this system it's
infinitely malleable.

Yeah.

Yep.

You can be the dextrous Cleric,
you can be the dextrous barbarian.

With smart barbarian.

Alison: I went high charisma,
low intelligence Wizard,

which would never function.

Yeah.

In 5e.

No.

Fitz: So it just opens up this whole
new world to characters that you can

build based on an idea you have in
your head and not being boxed in.

Yeah.

By making your character
be broken in a bad way.

Alison: Bad way.

Matt: One of, one of the things I love the
most about his, his thoughts and his, his

theories on, on this game and evolutions
of the game is that he feels that it

is, you know, the, the, it is the player
that should be, that should be happy.

Um, and, everything that you
want to do as a player should

come out of a role playing Yeah.

World thought, a role playing concept.

So that, that I think is why
he's detaching ability stats

from classes, which I think
is just, makes so much sense.

And, and to answer your question about
the, the not question, but your thought

of the, the multi classing is I'm sure
that there's an entire page of feats

that he's going to implement mm-hmm.

To all of these.

Yeah.

So that if, if, if my War Lord at
second level wanted to start learning

about magic, a feat would provide that.

Mm-hmm.

, and I don't know how he's going,
but, you know, this was a play

test was, dunno how it worked.

Alison: But I think two of the,
the biggest things that I loved,

kind of following everything you
guys have said, is the two biggest

things it rewarded were roleplay.

Mm-hmm.

Which we've all talked about now.

Mm-hmm.

Ad nauseum.

That is, that's our, that's
our jam and collaboration.

Mm-hmm.

So you are, you are rewarded on
the field for working together.

And I couldn't love that more
cuz that's one thing that I do

get really frustrated about.

It's probably why I don't
normally play the support, the

quote unquote support characters.

The clerics.

Yeah.

You know, et cetera.

The buffs.

Because there's no reward for it.

Yeah.

We're just trying to kill the
Baddie, so I just wanna slam as

many Call Lightnings as I can.

Yeah.

Whereas this is saying, no, I want
you to tell a story with how you're

doing whatever it is you're doing,
and I want you to work together as

a team so that way you both win.

Yeah, we all won.

And that

Matt: It really, I said it
was the best as a player.

I think it definitely was the best
combat experiences I've ever had.

It was just, it was just
exactly the way you wanted.

And, and one of Luke's comments
was, currently the way that

combat works in this, it, there
are a lot of things happening.

He's got a beautiful action system,
a point action, again, another point

system where there's four options and
you all of these combinations, which

could perhaps make combat longer.

Uh, but it was so fun and, and
free and the collaboration mm-hmm.

and the role playing is, is one
of the first times I've had them

all in combat at the same time.

Yes.

Which was just so great.

So I it is off to an
incredible start at this game.

Yeah.

Fitz: Well, and I think DC 20 bouncing
off of what you guys both did, both

just said, first of all, AK, we are
vastly different people because I

find the joy in supporting my friends,
oh, just enjoyable of damage, but

Alison: Screw you guys.

I'm going home.

Fitz: Screw you guys, I'm going home.

Um, I, I think maybe, uh, a takeaway of
this system, unless things drastically

change, is that if you are a person who
loves role play and loves to be rewarded

for role play in some sort of way,
this is going to be the system for you.

Yeah.

If you like the crunch, if you like
to MinMax and just, you know, if you

love to do the action economy jigsaw
puzzle, you might get something out

of this, but I, I don't think it's
going to be as rewarding to you as

something like a Pathfinder or a 5e.

Mm-hmm.

This one, I think speaks to
people who like to role play.

And it also speaks to, I think people
who do have neuro, neuro divergence

because although combat took longer
and it probably will, mm-hmm.

based on the system, it's more engaging.

Mm-hmm.

because you can only
pre-plan so far in advance.

Mm-hmm.

You really had to think on your
feet depending on what you chose

to do as your first action ca.

Mm-hmm.

point cash in mm-hmm.

. And if that went wrong or if it
went great, then you had three other

points to cash in that may, your
whole plan may have just changed.

Right.

And that happens sometimes in 5e, you
know, but it's usually based on what

happens by the players going ahead of you.

Yes.

So you're thinking about how can I
maximize my turn based on action,

bonus action, saving a reaction,
free action, whatever you're thinking

about, how do I fill in those
specific things to maximize my turn?

Right.

Whereas with this, you had to think on
your feet more and it was more engaging.

Yeah.

So I think for people who need
more action to stay more focused,

it's going to, that's maybe why
the combat was better for you.

Yeah.

Because you didn't get bored
cuz you had to think more.

Matt: Yeah.

I think that's, I think that's well said
because I, you, you get into ruts with

some, the Pathfinders and the 5e's because
your character has this amazing move and

you do that amazing move or you, yep.

But another thing is he's
a great, great Game Master.

Yes.

So he, he made sure to do all the
check boxes he had, he had terrain,

he had heights for his combat.

Mm-hmm.

for his battle maps.

He had, he had monsters that were
doing things and movements around.

So on top of, you know,
he, he also was a great

Alison: And spoiler alert to your
ADHd20 listeners, we are crossing

our fingers and our toes and our eyes
and everything else that Alan will

be a guest on a future episode Yeah.

of this here podcast.

Putting that out there We are putting
that energy into the universe.

Yeah.

Well, I kind of wanna
end on that high note.

We had a couple of other sessions.

Yeah.

But, you know, we, we really felt like
we landed on something super special.

Yeah.

Um, and our time with working title DC 20

Matt: Working title, DC 20.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

I, yeah, I think that was high.

There was, you know, we, we were, I
think we were very lucky to get to play.

, uh, a lot of these games with
people who had written the games.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Uh, either the entire system or in
Trevor's case and, and DCC hit the module.

The module, yeah.

And that, that was just a delight.

Those were definitely our favorite games.

Those were definitely, um, just, uh,
the time best well spent and, uh, yeah.

So would you go back?

Alison: Yeah.

That was the big question.

The big question.

Can we do this again?

Fitz: I think yes.

Mm-hmm.

Especially, you know, as, as a group.

Yes.

Yeah.

But, uh, do more, do better.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, I think we've now learned a few
things, not only about ourselves,

but how to make GaryCon, uh, more
efficient or, or at least to pre-prep

better so that we are more successful.

Yeah.

Going, which is starting to, to
know what games to sign up for.

Mm-hmm.

Knowing how.

much we can take in a day.

Mm-hmm.

and, you know, deciding

I'm not gonna say that.

Nevermind.

Alison: Sometimes there are secrets.

Fitz: Sometimes my wheels
were turning exciting that I

had to just hit the brakes.

. But yes, I think

Alison: Is, is that what
impulse control looks like?

Yes.

Fitz: Uh, yes.

There you go.

Alison: Wild.

Fitz: Well, we'll do some
tutoring sessions on impulse.

Alison: Okay okay.

Okay.

Fitz: Yeah.

But to be honest, like, you
know, as we were, we, I think we

did as much pre prepping as we
realistically could have, right?

For noobs, we had not gone, AK, you really
took the reins of, you know, getting

into the Discords and the Facebook group.

Figuring out how to sign up for games,
helping to pre-plan and find games

to, you made a little spreadsheet
for us to try to sign up, you

know, you did as much as you could.

Yeah.

Going into it.

And really this year we just
needed to, to figure it out.

Mm-hmm.

We had to, you know, get thrown
to the wolves and see how it went.

Overall, I think Yeah.

You did a great ass job.

Matt: Yeah, Yeah.

we'll be even better at it next time.

Yeah.

Next year.

Yeah.

Alison: This year.

Um, Joe Manganiello, Tom Morello and Vince
Vaughn were at the, uh, at the conference.

Mm-hmm.

Fitz: My most proud moment, oh God, of
Alison Kendrick this entire weekend.

The growth that I have seen within
her, her, can I admit this toxic trait?

Oh, for sure.

Alison: Okay.

Yeah.

So we put it all on the table here.

So I, I have no, I have no secrets.

You are allowed to have secrets.

I have no impulse control.

Okay.

Fitz: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna dump
a, a secret of Alison's, which is

that when she sees a celebrity, she,

Alison: Oh, that's not a secret.

Fitz: Okay.

Well, to, to find viewers
who have not met you.

Yes.

That when you meet a celebrity,
you have to tell them their name.

Yeah.

And you came within, I mean, you
brushed shoulders with Joe Manganiello,

and you didn't tell him his name.

His name, yeah.

Matt: It was very impressive.

Alison: I literally was biting my tongue.

Yeah.

I, I, I had my mouth like pressed
together, like teeth on tongue.

Don't do it.

Matt: Celebrities.

Celebrities don't always
know their names, though.

Alison: Maybe they need
help, sometimes I don't.

Sometimes they forget, so, yeah.

And so I did, I, I, I've always long joked
that I really wanna change my Facebook

name to Alison "no chill" Kendrick.

Mm-hmm.

and I tapped deep into the well
inside and I found an ounce of chill

as Joe Manganiello brushed by me.

Yeah.

I'm proud of you.

It's magic.

It was magic.

Yeah.

We did, we, we had some
magic this weekend.

We even set that as our intention
for one of the days we did.

And that was the day that we
met Alan, was that magic was

gonna be the theme of that day.

Yeah.

And it was.

And it really, really was.

Fitz: Yeah.

You know, it was magical.

When none of us could stay seated
for more than five minutes.

Alison: Oh no.

So much wiggling.

Yeah,

Matt: That's a good sign.

That's a good sign.

So we'll go back, you know, maybe,
maybe I'll sign up to, to run a table.

We never know.

We'll see.

We'll see how it goes.

You should.

Alison: Evan, you don't get a choice.

You're coming next year.

Yeah, yeah.

We go.

You go buddy.

Coming.

Matt: We'll do it.

We'll do it.

But yay.

Thanks for this recap everybody.

Fitz: Yeah, thanks.

Thanks for telling us how
our GaryCon went, everybody!

Matt: Yeah.

Thanks.

Thanks for telling us how GaryCon went?

Uh, Fitz, thank you for
being on our podcast.

Fitz: Did you just jingle me?

Matt: I did.

Fitz: I love y'all so much.

Matt: We love you so much.

Alison: I love you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thanks for letting me on your podcast.

Matt: Yeah.

Thanks for letting me be on your podcast.

Fitz: Thanks for letting me come
over and, uh, uh, mutiny and have.

Heist of your podcast.

It's now mine, folks.

Matt: Perfect.

Fitz: We'll pretend we didn't
turn it back a couple times.

Matt: I know.

Thank you for listening and being
a part of our ADHd20 and larger

Bivins Brothers Creative community.

If you're looking for more,
we have a hoppin' Discord that

a couple of us affectionately
call the Honeycomb Kill Room.

Look for the join link in the show notes.

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but also TV, comics, video games,
movies, theater, our pets, and

really anything else on our minds.

Come be nerds with us and all our friends.

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