AK: These silly hats.

Whose idea was this,

anyways?

Matt: Um, no idea.

Hi,

Alison.

AK: Hi, Mattie.

Oh, for the last time this season.

Matt: I know, I know.

But, we're talking about
like a month, right?

AK: Yeah, not even.

Matt: diddly doing today?

AK: How's everybody diddly doing?

We did dress for the occasion.

Thank you for noticing.

Matt: Yes?

Hello?

AK: um, well,

Matt: Mmm.

Mm

AK: final episode of ADHd20 Season 2,

Electric Boogaloo.

It's one more episode than we

did >in>> Season One, so

we decided that would

be a good place and way to end it.

Matt: Mm hmm.

AK: We decided to end it with you,
some of our best friends, our patrons,

tuning in live.

And it's so good to have you here.

Um, we,

Matt in true form did moments before
we kick off say, Do we have an outline?

Has anybody seen an outline?

Looking high and low for an outline?

Matt: In the truest form.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We didn't have one, but that's okay.

We don't usually have one for this show.

I mean, that's not true.

AK: We usually have one, we
just usually don't pay it any

attention.

Matt: don't look at it

it

AK: All the tea on

ADHD20 today.

So we thought that today
would be a little bit of a

retrospective, looking back fondly

on our first and

second years as podcast co hosts,

Matt: know

AK: and

Matt: know.

It's been amazing.

Yeah.

This, uh, for those of you who don't know,
uh, this is a podcast called A DHD 20,

finds the intersection between A DHD, and

AK: TTRPGs.

Matt: That's right.

That's right.

That's what this is.

but if if you do not have a DHD.

Or, you do not play TTRPGs,
you're still welcome.

AK: Thank you for being here.

Matt: Yeah, well, yeah, great to have you.

It's really great to have You

AK: You know, not to
not to out anybody, but

Matt: Hehehehe.

AK: several people in the comments,
uh, over the course of this season, and

some of last have, have, have shared
with us that maybe they do have ADHD and

just didn't know it until they
heard the two of us talking

about, Uh huh.

Matt: it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,
it's, is that in the last two years, we

have been diagnosing people non stop,
and we are not qualified to do so.

But everything now fits into these,
these, these amazing Uh, personal

discoveries that you and I have in this
podcast, everything, like, now I think

that my wife has ADHD, think brother
has ADHD and all other things, everybody

that has joined us on Discord now has

AK: has ADHD.

I have autism,

or am

Matt: autism,

AK: yeah, yeah, yeah.

So

Matt: it just gets better
and better and better.

It's like, no, you know, but, but
to be fair, I think the other thing

that we've discovered is that.

There's no such thing as neurotypical.

AK: typical, Not at all.

Um, so I'm so glad to be, you know,
let's go ahead and get started.

Make our way into, like, the
clapbacks and callbacks of the

season.

Callback number one was the episode
we did surrounding Are We a Cult?

Matt: Mm-Hmm?

AK: I mean, I was pretty emphatically
no back then, but a mere, what was

that, like, four or five months ago?

And I'm

now, uh, I think we
might have accidentally

started a cult, Matt,
and I'm okay with it.

Matt: I mean, I mean, is it, is
it, again, cults have a, a leader.

And that leader may or
may not be sinister.

So, I don't think we're the leaders of

AK: the man lit up red.

For the holidays.

For morale.

Matt: la, la, demons, demons, demons

Demons.

Demons.

Demons.

AK: I'll tell you this, we
are the holliest, jolliest,

jingliest, jangliest demons, if

that's exact.

Charismatic.

Thank you.

Yeah, not sinister.

Charismatic

leader.

Thank you, Jax.

Matt: Oh yeah, I learned something new.

I learned something new recently.

Uh, all the kids are saying it.

They're like, she got riz.

They got Riz.

And of course I love that
because, you know, charisma.

They got charisma.

What is your charisma.

score?

AK: a nat 20

Matt: You're a nat 20 Riz.

Yeah, so this is how we
start the show normally.

We just kind of, uh, laugh and
laugh and laugh at each other

and then we're like, oh, we'll
never, we'll always edit that out.

And of course we never edit any of it out.

Uh, there's a lot of singing, a
lot of hunting for windows on your

AK: Speaking of hunting for windows,
we didn't put this on the but shall we

roll for one final time this season?

How many times am I going to
do that today on the ADHD 100

table?

I think it's your turn to roll.

Matt: Okay, good.

So that means it's your

turn to read.

Yeah.

Uh, pack

AK: And I got it pulled up.

Also, the D100 table might be one
of my favorite facets of ADHd20.

And we give Fitz most of the
credit for our sweet, sweet D100.

I helped

like that much, but all the good questions

came

Matt: Mm hmm.

AK: our Lorekeeper

Matt: It's really, they're really great.

Really, really great.

Okay.

Today's number is 49.

49.

AK: 49 Uh, and we, you know what, we
have asked the one below and above, but

Matt: Oh, dang.

Okay, great.

AK: Uh, what is something that you
can now attribute to your ADHD that

you simply thought was a strange quirk

before your diagnosis?

Matt: Oh my gosh.

Oh my gosh.

Let's see.

I'm just gonna go look
at past episode topics.

What was the one that was really masking?

AK: Mm hmm.

Matt: not, I did not factor in masking.

I did not factor in, I didn't
even factor in over explaining

or catastrophizing, to be

AK: Mm hmm.

Mm

hmm.

Matt: Those are three major
things Um, how about you?

AK: So I'll go big and small.

Uh, like my big kind of macro one is
the whole, the fact that I will not

walk into a restaurant without knowing,

Matt: Mmm.

AK: like, where people are waiting
inside or I'll just wait in my car

for my friends to get
there to go in with them.

Um, Yeah, yeah, that's my big one.

Um, that once I got diagnosed, I was
like, Oh, that makes so much sense.

Um, my small one, it was actually a topic
that took off in our Discord this week,

uh, being very particular about flatware.

There are very specific
types of forks and spoons

Matt: Whoa, whoa.

AK: Oh, yeah.

Matt: dude.

Are you serious right now?

I

AK: serious right now.

Matt: wi I will not cannot
use the smaller forks.

I cannot use, they're just
a little bit too small.

I can't do it.

It

AK: That's That's the right

answer.

Matt: out of me.

That's An ADHD thing?

ADHD thing.

AK: That is such a neuro spicy thing.

It I have I have I act I'm usually a
bigger fork girl than smaller fork, but

I don't get bent out of shape over it.

My dad gets bent out of shape
if I offer him the wrong fork.

But y'all.

The love I have for a soup
spoon over a regular spoon.

Matt: Hells yes.

AK: Give me a good circular round bowl

my spoon over, you know, kind of
the elongated oval one any day.

I

gosh I swear it makes a
difference in the taste.

And I will eat non soup things
with a soup spoon just because

the soup spoon is so superior.

We're gonna spend this
whole episode talking

about

flatware.

Matt: okay, that's fine.

dude.

I just feel so seen

AK: been season.

Thanks, everybody, for tuning in.

Matt: yeah, it has been
a great, thank you.

so everybody.

Bye!

Oh my gosh, I only, I only All right.

Let's get to, let's get it
to business, to business.

Or,

AK: matt, if you have like a favorite,
you know, we'll, we'll sprinkle

in like our favorite memories and

biggest aha moments and things like that.

So if you have one at any
time, do the ADHD impulsive

thing and just shout it out.

Um, But in the meantime,

I had asked I kind of polled our Discord
for some of their favorite moments.

there?

Matt: Yeah, I wanted to, I
wanted to touch on some of my

favorite memories of the year.

So, one of my very favorite, I know
we kind of, last year's recap was

kind of, Oh my gosh, I can't believe
we, I can't believe we recorded and

edited and published 18 episodes.

We were stunned.

And, I mean, it really started as a lark.

The whole thing started as a lark.

So this year I am super freaky grateful
to ADHD20 for becoming the cornerstone

of what is now the Pocket Dimension
which includes my brother Evan and of

course Fitz and now an ever growing
community of people in Discord and

beyond and so I Um, I love that, that
ADHD 20 is a very specific thing,

it's still a very niche tastic thing.

But, it, it, it allowed us to talk
to people like Dale Critchley, uh,

the Accessibility D& D Mechanics, uh,
gentleman, who is Doing amazing work,

and, uh, of course, our friend Sarah
Mobley, and then Alan Bjorkgren, the

dungeon coach, came on ADHD20, and he
was very confused, because he had met

us, we didn't, you know, we kind of
talked about ADHD a little bit, and

then we, but he was like, who, uh,
Bivins Brothers, what's happening?

And so, we were kind of inspired
to come up with the Pocket

Dimension, and so, it's so nice.

to be able to count this podcast as,
as the thing that started it all.

we touched on some
amazing things this year.

The concept of dopamining, which
is a big thing for both of us.

The ADHD tax, which, which is, it's
amazing because that was one of the

earlier episodes this year, and more
and more and more I see these taxes.

Once I did my taxes, and then
more and more like, oh man.

AK: I love, I loved everything
that you've mentioned so far.

Obviously, I'm very obsessed with
our community, everybody here

chatting away with us right now.

Um, one of my favorite standout
moments from the season was the

time that you and I got to process

some beef

Matt: Mm hmm.

Yeah, you really did enjoy that.

AK: did.

That time I called Matt to
the principal's office and

scared him.

But,

Matt: for murdering you,

AK: for murdering me, um, I
wonder what that would have looked

like without this, like, would

Matt: I do

AK: talked

about that if

we

Matt: I really,

AK: show and, and, if it hadn't been so
applicable to, like, what was going on?

Um, would I have ever addressed
that with you or would I

have just sat and pouted and, you
know, felt rejected and weird and

bad?

Um,

Matt: Similarly, having my brother on
now I've, I've known my brother for 50

years almost, and, uh, and I was just.

gobsmacked, um, by a lot of the things
that he was, he was, he came on and

talked about, you know, some very
personal things and things that I didn't

realize and, and ways that he relates
to us and, and that we relate to him.

And I think that, I think that our
Relationship has gotten better since,

at least, in, you know, not that it
was bad, but just in a way to, to go,

right, I can go back to the episode
and think, oh my gosh, right, I did

not know that that was part of Evan's
spicy brain, uh, things, right?

AK: Mm hmm.

Matt: Ah, yeah,

AK: was also one of my highlights just

because, you know, he's obviously
one of your best friends.

He's one of my best friends.

We spent a lot of time together.

And I just, I loved getting to know
somebody on a whole new level that I

thought I knew you extremely well already.

Uh, Evan, Onion, boy, that one, just all
the layers and surprises and nooks and

crannies for cool things
to hide inside of.

Matt: Layers and layers.

And then, and then having Sarah on was
amazing because I only know Sarah in a

performative, performance level, right?

I'm in a group with her, improv group, uh,
I didn't know the business the day to day,

I didn't know her day job, the business
socks, when she puts on her business

socks, I didn't, I didn't know that.

She came and

she had like, freaking printouts, it
was incredible, it was incredible,

and I, still have those and I still go
through them when I, when I worry about

myself, uh, that was, to see, to see
her mind, uh, was, was an amazing thing.

Mmm.

AK: One of my highlights of
2023 was meeting Sarah after

getting to meet her through

Matt: no,

AK: When, when we were up in Chicago.

Um, that was super duper duper fun and

Matt: was right before we went to GaryCon.

went to a Cheese then, uh,
we, we had a live, we had a

live show, sort of with Fitz.

That was really fun, we came back
and we, we realized, oh my gosh.

We talk about this thing, but then we
get there, and we come back with COVID,

but we still love Dungeons & Dragons.

We still love all of this stuff.

AK: And that was like, I mean,
that was like a six or seven year

long dream realized for me getting
to go to the Mars Cheese Castle

in Kenosha,

Matt: You can do it.

I know you want to do it.

Go for it.

You can do it.

I know you want to do it.

go for Yeah.

AK: Can I do it.

Oh my god, the Mars Cheese
Castle in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

It is so many rooms of just
cheese on cheese on cheese.

So many kinds of cheese curds.

You would just not believe.

Okay,

thank you.

Thank you for letting me.

Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

that was good.

You

AK: that out of my

Matt: That was wonderful

that was good.

You did it.

That was wonderful.

Wonderful.

Uh.

Yeah, I mean, there's so many
things, procrastinating and

catastrophizing and over explaining.

I feel like I've had the best
conversations with people,

AK: Let's, let's dive into a couple and

let's just, if we think of other,
uh, memories and favorites and

not so favorites, blurt them out.

Um, so our friend Jax, I'm
gonna, I'm I'm gonna open up

with my favorite question that

she asked.

How do the holidays affect your ADHD?

And or, how does your
ADHD affect the holidays?

Do you get overwhelmed or
overstimulated this time of year?

By all the hustle and bustle,
I know I do, uh, she says.

Matt: Excellent question.

AK: I think my answer to this goes
along with the spiritual practice that

y'all have heard me also simultaneously

be on, which is

Matt: Woo

AK: Has been all about creating
healthy boundaries in my life, and

recognizing what relationships and
people and things I do are serving me

and letting the ones that are not, you
know, kind of float to the wayside.

So this year for the holidays, I'm
not going home to Birmingham, Alabama.

I am still getting to see my
family because I do love my family.

So let's get clear about that.

I am not throwing anybody under the bus
and saying my family no longer serves me.

But all that travel was
overstimulating to me.

In a time, in a year that I've been very
busy, and I've had a lot going on, and

I didn't take, I did not take nearly
enough long rests this year, y'all.

I just,

Matt: Yeah.

AK: all year long.

And I'm not sorry about it
because I had a whole lot of fun.

But I realized that trying to
fit a trip to Birmingham for a

couple of nights would have like
catapulted me into overstimulation.

So finding the freedom just to call my
mom up and not Make excuses or pussyfoot

around this, but just say, Hey, could
you come meet me in Atlanta instead?

Could we

do that?

Um, so that way I can actually
have like a relaxing holiday that

looks like what I want it to look
like instead of what someone else's

expectation of, of Christmas should be.

I just think that feels really good.

And I don't, I don't think
in years past, I would have

recognized I need that and then

been able to verbalize

my desire for that So

Matt: I 100 percent agree that
you wouldn't You I will say that

you you The breaks that you did
take this year, they did Not.

seem like long rests.

They, they were, they were still very
social, and even you were trying to

chill, you were not really chilling.

So you, you would come back
and say, I need a vacation.

So I think that I was so proud of you
when you said, I'm gonna just Chill

at for Christmas, and I'm going to,
you know, just do what I need to do.

But I, but I also love that you
get, you get to see your, uh, Mom

AK: And Dad.

Matt: and Dad.

AK: Uh, I also get to see Fitz.

We are going

to go take a long rest.

We have

rented a house with nothing on the agenda,
but walking around and eating good food.

And that is,

a long rest.

Stomping

And eating.

That

is how we

Matt: and eatin'.

And eatin' and stomping.

And this is in

AK: the beach in

Matt: Charlestonian?

Yeah.

Mm.

AK: on Folly.

Uh,

Matt: yeah, just don't,
don't accept any socials.

Just don't, don't.

Don't do anything.

AK: We're not gonna.

That's how you know
you found a true friend

is like the people that you
can just do nothing with.

Matt: Yep.

AK: And Fitz, you're a true friend.

We ain't gonna do shit that week.

Matt: Ain't gonna do bleh heh heh duh duh.

Yep.

Uh, I also, uh, uh, I have a
very big, a big Christmas coming

up because it's brand new.

Uh, experience, uh, Jax.

Uh, I'm very, I'm very excited about it.

Um, but it is, like, it involves flying,
which is, I haven't done in years.

I haven't done forever to
fly during the holidays.

Uh, I mean, it was a choice.

It makes the most sense, but, uh,
I will have stress about that.

I will definitely have
stress about flying.

I just will.

That's okay.

Uh, and then we're going to,
we're going to be in a new home.

We're going to be in Evan's,
uh, and his wife Elise's home.

So that's all going to be new.

And my mom, that's going to be new.

And her sister, and brother
in law, and all these.

So the good news is that
They hit a point in the day.

They They'll just say,
hey, it's chilling time.

It's pajama time.

What is it?

It's cozy pants o'clock.

And it's done.

Is CozyPants o'Clock?

And, you know, party is over.

And I am looking forward to that,
because they're very good at that.

And I'm, you know, in their own home,
I'm sure it's going to be the same.

So once I get there, once I get
there, it's going to be fine.

Jax, thanks for thinking of me.

But yeah, it's hard.

I definitely get packing and blah y y y y,
but But once I get there, it'll be great.

It'll be great.

AK: it's gonna be great.

Overstimulated at

the holidays.

That's us, But, not really.

Matt: it is but I but for that reason
That was my point for that reason

Lindsay and I took Thanksgiving off We
we rented a place we went out On our own.

We did not see anybody.

It was just the dogs and us We had
we had your Charleston and on a

marsh in Michigan So I think that
allowed me to kind of be totes goods.

Toast

AK: goods.

Matt: which no one says.

Yeah, there.

Evan says, cozy pants, pimento cheese.

What else do you need?

Three question marks.

It's true.

What else do I need, brother?

Dinging.

AK: glad y'all have each other.

that we have both of

Matt: Me too, me too.

AK: Uh, Fitz, add pimento cheese
to the shopping list for our

week,

please.

Matt: me Yeah, man.

Okay, what

AK: Um, So, uh, Mike, another one of our,
uh, pocket pals, he said, I think for

me, the aha moment was somewhere within
the first five episodes of Season One.

Here I am

listening to this podcast and realizing
that a lot of the weird things I

do aren't really weird at all and
are in fact fairly common, like

having strong preferences for forks.

Um, he didn't add that last part
that I just did, but it fits here.

And, and Mike was definitely part
of the, the Great Fork debate.

So

yes,

we see you, we hear
you, we honor you, Mike.

Um, and as for the question,
what's next for ADHd20?

What are the crazy, outlandish,
super exciting goals that you have

for the podcast and as a follow
up, how can we help y'all achieve

those goals?

Matt: Well, you already are.

number one.

Uh, We have lots of goals for this year.

We had a meeting yesterday.

God, you've got all kinds of
sparkly, delicious things.

Um, uh, what was I just saying?

We had a meeting yesterday where we
started to talk about these goals.

Uh, it is, it is a member of of
the Pocket Dimension has a very big

birthday, so that is high, high on the
list, is celebrating this birthday,

because AK's Mine was celebrated
last year, um, by meeting together.

It was kind of the origin of
our home brewed world, and,

and many, many other things.

Just playing together for the first time,
and I feel like we just learned and grew.

A lot.

So, that's definitely on the books,
but as far as, as far as, uh, what

we want to do with ADHD20 and the POC
Dimension, there's so many things.

There's so many things.

I still, I still have a, uh, I have a
short list of people that I really want

to get on the podcast, and I do I was
serious when I said before, I think that

it, you know, the more that we go out
there, the more cons we go out, the more

people we meet, the more Dungeon Coaches
we meet, the, you know, the, you know,

we're going to find those connections.

So I, I don't want to give up on that.

Uh, and it really just kind of like,
go to these things, meet these people.

They're all so amazing.

So I would love to hear, for
this podcast, I really would.

I think in our first episode We had like
a dream guest list and I want to just

keep getting closer to that because,

AK: because then we can find,
you know, more of the friends.

we, we, we love, the community, we, we
want to keep it small enough for us to

still get to like know everybody and
play the games and things like that.

But yeah, it wouldn't hurt our feelings
to grow the channels a little bit more.

Um, we have room, We have
room in our hearts and minds,

um,

And at our fingertips for a few

Matt: We do.

And it's funny, because we, I
would like to know whether self

promotion or the difficulty in self
promotion is some kind of neuro

spicy trait, because it is, you know.

I, I am a YouTube content consumer
as well, so I know that when people

say, hey, like and subscribe, uh,
at first it was deeply annoying, and

it's something to make fun of, right?

It is going to be I've said it before,
I think that there'll be, in the

future, there'll be so many people
making fun of the YouTube videos.

So many.

And making fun of us.

Unfortunately, right right now in
2023, if we hit 500, then a lot of

things change, and then it kinda,
so it's, I get it now, you know,

AK: Yeah, I am convinced.

I am manifesting this live on the

air,

friends.

Matt: d

AK: We're, we're going
up and over 500 in 2023.

Matt: Yeah.

504.

Five.

AK: Maddie?

Keep going.

I'm not even putting a number on it.

I am just

expanding our reality

Matt: Uh, so yeah, that and then
I think, I think a dream of mine

still, I think we had it last year.

Uh, this year was our go out
into the world of TTRPGs and see

if we still like it for real,
like, on that level, and we did.

We absolutely do.

So, I do want to sit
down at a panel of a Con.

Within the next five years, I
want you and me to sit down.

want to be, I want to hang out.

AK: Yep.

So y'all

are already, I love that you
asked that Mike, that you

asked like, what can y'all do?

And it really, truly, you were
already doing it like being here.

know, I know that things like
Discord can get overwhelming.

I know that there's a million
creators a minute asking for

your social currency in the

form of attention and your dollars.

So the fact that any of you guys
are here all in our Discord, much

less plugging away on Patreon.

And that is actually one of my other,
uh, asks that I do have of anybody

tuning in both live and later.

What,

like, makes you want to
support somebody on, you

know, with both your attention
and your, uh, and your dollars?

What can we offer to patrons?

We've talked about, um, Tabletop
Phoenix had a great idea for

us kind of building a pantheon.

It's always been one of my dreams to
make a platform for people who want to

play on live streams to get that chance.

Um, and so we've talked about
this world, um, you know, that

is our homebrew world of Sigea.

Opening it up and having some
of y'all come and playing it

with us would be super fun.

And you're already doing that on
the, the one shots, but let's do

some live streaming together too.

But what, what, what makes
that investment worth it?

It's an open conversation.

You don't have to answer it right now, but

anytime either drop us, you know, a
private message if you don't want to

post it publicly or go into any of
the channels and discord and start a

discussion about, I'd really love this.

This would, you know, uh, this, or
my friends and I were talking and

they would be interested in this.

Um, we want to hear from you cause
we have our ideas, but y'all's are

probably better.

Um, all right, let's move on to some more

questions.

These are so great.

Thank you guys so much.

Um, I love this question from
Galaxy Fox in our Discord.

How does being neurodivergent
impact character creation

for tabletop role playing

Matt: Mmm.

Oh my

AK: already mentioned
Dale and that was so cool.

I don't even have the words for it.

To have somebody who is so
invested in the space of inclusion

and accessibility and TTRPGs.

Um, so, it makes me want to help lift his
voice and others in the room like him.

For me, I think that you know, we've
talked about this a lot before that

every character that you create is
in some way tied to you, whether

you intend for them to be or not.

So

it really is this like
self exploration tool.

Um, and God, it was so neat to begin,
you know, Chimericals, the, the character

that I've played for the longest, she's
now the one that's died at Matt's hands.

Um,

love you.

Oh,

Matt: And

she will die again.

Okay.

AK: You guys.

Wow!

Matt: I'm sorry, I don't know
what, I don't know what that was.

AK: demons.

Matt: Demons!

Demons!

AK: Totally just lost my
train of thought on that.

Anyways, but it, like, once I realized,
like, the, the problem with her,

not a problem, but, you know,
like, what was going on,

Matt: problem.

AK: The problem...

with

Matt: What what

we, ADHD 20.

The podcast where we
wonder what is our What

AK: is our problem.

Matt: What is our

AK: But realizing that both
Alison the player and Chimerical

the character was having this,
like, hard fought internal battle

just lit up by RSD.

And so, and I, so I do to that, to
your kind of question, Galaxy Fox,

on that note, now, as I've been
spinning up new characters, it's

forced me to think Like, when I spun
up Benni, you guys all made fun of me

because I picked Charisma, because I
always pick Charisma, because I think

it's fun to play Charisma.

I love that Riz, yo.

Um, ew, that felt weird to say, I didn't
like that, I'm not gonna say that again.

Um, But what does Charisma mean,
and how do we not be boring, because

Charisma doesn't always have to be the
face, and how do we find these levels

and make it exciting and interesting.

That one shot was, you know, kind
of our debutante ball of coming into

the live play, actual play world.

So I kind of in the back of my brain
knew I wanted to play something that was

not only fun for me, but might also be
interesting for other people to watch.

And so I think that my
neuro spiciness helps

with that when it comes
to character creation.

Matt: Yeah.

I

mean, The more comfortable you, you get
in your skin as a human being, I don't

care who you are, the more comfortable
you are, the more that you understand, the

more that you realize you're not alone.

These are all things that you
want to, I think, you would

want to put into a character.

So it, like, invades your play.

Because I could, I could see where you
would You know, if, if you have a, a

feeling of disappointment in yourself
or shame, you could use roleplay to try

to get away from that, but I don't know.

I feel like it was a really fun episode
this year to talk about Chimerical and go,

Oh my gosh, you know, not Not realizing
some of these things that we do and we

live with, uh, are, are already in them.

I mean, I think any character I've ever
created, they just have to have ADHD.

There's no, because I
don't know any better.

I don't know, I don't
know what else to do.

And I love that.

I love that.

You know?

Um, and this, this podcast
has helped with that.

So that's, that's what I think.

AK: So Fitz question number one.

I love this one, Matt.

Where do you find the line between
an ADHDism trait to accept and

accommodate with a badge of pride, and
a trait that you attempt to change or

mask intentionally?

Where do you find the line?

So answering the first part of that
question, I don't find the line.

There are things that I am
absolutely proud about and be

like, Nope, that's how I am.

Take it or leave it.

Um, and then there are absolutely things.

So not forcing myself to treat
everything on an equal plane, I

guess would be the first part of that

answer.

Um, my, I will share, since I just
said that I don't have a line,

thing I still wish I could change,
there's two, um, One I'm actively working

on, one will probably never change,
um, the one I'm actively working on.

But what I'm actively working on is the
whole impulsive, interrupting, listening

to understand instead of to respond.

Um,

Matt: It's a tough one.

AK: because That would make me a better
friend, it would make me a better player,

it would make me a better GM, it would, it
would be part of everything I want to be.

Um, so yeah, actively working on that.

Um, don't like that I do it.

Don't think it's cute.

Don't want to do it anymore.

Um, and messiness.

I'm just a messy human.

And sometimes it's funny to be like, Oh,
my God, here comes Alison, the hot mess.

Haha, I'm such a trash panda.

But like,

Matt: Oh my god.

Is that what you say?

Oh my god.

Or is that what your friends say?

Oh god.

AK: definitely the internal monologue.

Trash pandemonium,

baby.

Um,

Matt: Yeah,

AK: I don't like that.

I don't like that, like, when people
come over to my and all of my friends

are like, Alison, stop apologizing.

Like, we know you.

Like, the jig's up, baby.

Like, but I still feel the need.

Like, if you and Lindsay were gonna
come visit me, two people that I love,

that I know love me, I would Like,
turn myself inside out with fear of

like, Matt and Lindsay are going to
walk into my house and see how messy

it is and turn around and walk out.

Um, the fix there is
to just be less messy,

but

Matt: Yeah, I know.

I, I'm the same.

I really am.

I get it.

I really do.

I get it.

It's hard.

It is pandemonium

AK: it

Matt: but I,

AK: trash

pandemonium.

Matt: uh, I love your answer.

Is that, is that your final answer?

AK: That's my final answer.

Matt: Uh, I, I would say it's
such a good question, Fitz, that

I really think that between.

Coaching, ADHD coaching, and this
podcast, and then other people

that I have met and talked to.

Between all of these things, and the
more that I discover that the reason I

don't like the small fork is possibly
something happening in here, you know?

The masking parts, I work the
hardest on because I realize they

can hurt other people, right?

Or they, uh, annoy, or, or, or,
or make other people's lives

more difficult, or Whatever.

So, yes, I can easily say, oh well, I have
ADHD, ehhh, right, like, but, I think the

trick there is to say, I do have this, so
this is going to happen, so you're okay.

That's okay.

Cause you can't stop it.

However, how can I be even more
aware of where I am and who I'm with?

And, not mask, like be, find that,
find the, that actual line, you know,

and ride that line and say, this is
why it's happening, but I want it

to be, I want to make this an easier
experience for people I'm around too.

Two.

Right?

For myself and for them.

Right?

So that's a big thing.

And then, and then the thing
that I really, really, really,

really would love to work on
this year, for real, is just the.

My inability to voice the things that
happen in my head as, as succinctly

as they are in here as, you know, I
would like to finish sentences more.

The difficulty is that, in my head, I've
already finished that sentence and I'm on

to the next one.

And I, I, I think that's okay with
people, around people who love me.

I don't love it when I'm a
Game Master and it's happening.

That's where I really, really
want to work on it, right?

I want to be more focused.

I want to, to find the ability to
say what I mean and say it clearly.

And so, yeah,

Breaking down the sentences in my head
in a slower fashion and forcing myself

to kind of, uh, make sure that everyone
around me understands what I'm saying.

That's what I want.

AK: Yeah.

I loved.

Well, and I love that you touched on
the first part of Fitz's question,

which is where do you find the line?

Matt: Mmhmm.

AK: I think that delineation,
like, it's fine if I'm out here,

like, screwing myself over.

I don't

want this to hurt other

people.

I don't want this to have a negative
effect on my, you know, and that's, that's

the thing about growth, right, is that
it's on one hand, boundaries are good.

This is I am how I am.

I is what I is.

But if that's your answer for everything,

and you're like, sorry, deal with it.

I'm just a saucy bossy lady.

Like, it's okay to be an ass kicker and
in certain ways, but like, maybe you

could soften some edges here And there.

Um,

Matt: And you don't want, you don't want
people to, you don't want people to make

you feel like you need to apologize for
yourself if you don't believe that either.

That's, that's not, that's not it.

But yes, we know those people who are
like, Hang on, I'll just deal with it.

This is who I am.

I don't know why they always
have a bobble head, but you know,

they usually have a bobble head.

And yeah, so I think, I think that's,
that's great to know yourself, but

also, yeah, there are other people.

Put yourself into other people's shoes.

That's, is tough for some
people who have not thought

about this the way that we have.

Because I'm not saying they're wrong.

I'm saying I don't share that.

I don't share that belief.

It could be correct for you,
it's not correct for me.

So believe it or not.

I know it's hard, it is hard to believe,
it is so hard to believe, but I do

not feel the same way, I don't, I just
don't, I don't know, you know, Yeah.

so that's, whee,

AK: Insert, uh, Real Housewives meme here.

That's my opinion!

Um,

sorry, sometimes I like
to be a walking meme.

Matt: take it,

AK: There very few things that
are black and white in this

world, and it's like right,

wrong, one

answer.

Matt: back, yeah,

AK: Um, yeah, you're right,
that I can think one thing

and you can think it, oh wow.

Now we're just openly laughing at each

other about

everything.

Fitz's final question, um,
which I really liked and would

be a good ending punctuation,

uh, mark.

What was your favorite one shot or even
just a regular game session this year?

What about it?

Stood out above all the rest.

I think we each get two answers.

one as a

DM and

one as a player.

Matt: Play a play for

AK: It's my podcast

and I'm making up the rules.

Matt: Thank you for
having me on your podcast.

by the way.

I don't tell, I don't
tell you that enough.

Thank you so much.

AK: Thank you for

Matt: Mm-Hmm,

AK: me on your podcast.

Matt: Yeah, of course.

Okay, so go.

What are your two answers?

AK: so as a DM, um, my kind of turning
point this year Because I had done very

little DMing coming into 2023 and, and

Matt: Yes.

AK: didn't actually like it all that much.

Um, or so I thought, and you have
all changed my opinion about it.

Um, I did learn and I had this
realization and verbalized it for

the first time just a week or so ago.

I just think I'm more of a, one shot
DM like I kept trying to fill these

campaign sized holes as a DM and it just
kept not feeling good in my body and

once i realize like i just am a one shot
girly everything kind of clicked for me.

But i think the very first one
shot session That, like, I had

a, like, I felt like I got it.

I got this, like, I felt confident
in what I was doing, was the

Harmony of Discord one shot.

I did two sessions of it.

Um.

I had done, I think the very
first one that I had done was

Battle for the Hottie Hive.

If you were in that one shot, I am sorry.

I had no idea what I was doing.

And I was so like, I had spent hours
and hours and hours preparing for

that one and still felt woefully
unprepared and like I just wasn't

delivering a good enough product.

The next one was the Journey
to the Forbidden Vault.

And that one was pretty fun.

Like, that one I was like, okay,
like, this is starting to click.

It's cool to, like, play with strangers.

That's less scary than I
thought it was going to be.

But, like, Harmony of Discord was
the one shot where I felt empowered

enough to, like, make my own decisions.

To, like, come up with these kind of
weird things to throw at my players.

Um, I had, knowing who was playing in that
session, like, I had put in some, like,

funny little things to taunt y'all with.

Um, And I remember your feedback,
Matt, specifically, and it made

me go like, Oh, I should do more
of this, was around strong start,

Matt: Mm.

AK: that's important in a campaign
and a one shot to kind of come out

of the, it doesn't necessarily mean
come out in a combat, but you had

also remarked that since I am the self
proclaimed combat gremlin, I had come

out of the gate swinging in that one.

And it was fun.

And it kind of showed you guys immediately
what you would be fighting against.

Um, so yeah, so I think that was my
favorite, like, okay, like, I can do this.

And every one shot that we've done since
has been a little bit easier for me.

Matt: Yes.

AK: Um, Honorable Mention
was the one that you and I co

wrote.

It was fun to partner with you on

that,

Matt: Mm hmm.

AK: Anything we do together
is going to be more fun

than anything I do on my own.

Um, and had this idea of like, maybe
we could start producing one shots and

put them out for the world in an ADHD
friendly fashion so that people like us

can feel empowered to do more themselves.

Um, do you want to answer

your DM?

One or do you want me to

go?

Matt: Well, that, that was
actually going to be mine.

The Spice Willow, Haunting of a Spice
Willow Manor, for those reasons, uh, I

don't, I, I would not, you know, I, I
know it's not a perfect, uh, it's not a

perfect module, it's not a perfect one
shot, but Working with you, I saw that

we could, we could make something happen.

We really could.

You are, who just said this?

Jax.

You are a great DM, and you're
a really great one shot DM.

You know, we haven't played a campaign
together, so I wouldn't know, but you

are so You're so good at, at organizing
a three to four hour experience, and so

I loved having those guidelines and then
adding weird, darker stuff here and there

and plot and, and things that I'm gonna,
so I really hope in 2024 that we work

on, and maybe even release, uh, a first,
like, ADHD friendly one shot, you know?

I I I think that would be amazing, and you
had some amazing ideas of how that would

be, so that, yes, that was my GM one.

Ahem.

AK: Good answer.

Good answer.

Players always surprise you.

It's always the thing you
throw in there that they

are like, tell me more about this chair.

Matt: Mm hmm.

Yeah.

AK: Um, my favorite, I've had
a lot of hits, uh, uh, playing.

I've had a lot of great moments.

Um, but I'm going to give, and
maybe cause I'm, I'm the type of

person that like, you know, like.

My favorite thing is whatever I'm,
have consumed most closely, you

know, um, I loved playing in
especially part two of the

Shadows Cast in Ember Tide.

Um, I loved the idea.

So first of all, for those of you
who have been paying attention for

any amount of time, you know that
I am the one that hates newness.

I get so scared.

Matt: Yeah.

Heh

AK: for anything new and, and, and, and
was nervous about TTRPGs Picking up a new

game and, you know, and playing it for

presumably the world to see.

all the world, the whole wide world.

Um,

Matt: heh heh heh heh

AK: You know, and we wanted
to do, we wanted to do DC20

and Coach justice.

We also, it was, you know, like our
first time really getting to show off our

world, um, in a, in a more public way.

Uh, I loved building characters
from scratch on camera and like

letting be part of that process.

That was something that I
had a hunch was gonna be fun.

And it was way more fun than even I

thought it was gonna

Matt: Yeah.

Yeah.

AK: Um, and you know, part one, I think
we were all kind of like finding our

rhythm and we were all like a little
bit nervous and getting into it, but

man, I felt like by the time we get into
part two we were just like sprinting

at that point.

We were soaring.

Um.

And it just felt really good to, to share
our world, to share our characters that

we had created live, and then just to
share our antics, to let people see, like,

that really is what it's like to play.

Like, Evan is like That

That is how Evan plays.

Matt: Yeah.

That's it.

Right.

AK: What Fitz does when we play.

Um, you know, and so.

Matt: And, and, that is, you know,
whenever, whenever somebody says, Why,

why are you not just writing a book,
reading a book, watching a movie?

Why are you spending four
hours playing a game?

It's because Evan is at the table,
Fitz is gonna go try to kill some,

uh, mutant, uh, raccoons, and then,
and then, dice are rolled, dice

are rolled, that change everything.

That can change every single thing.

But yeah, I mean, just, that, it just,
it adds, I mean, that is life, right?

Life is random, life is chaotic, but
to be able to have that little capsule

of, so maybe that's my favorite thing.

Maybe that's my favorite thing is just for
those three hours, good game, bad game,

whatever it is, you're kind of, you're
kind of like putting the best of you into

that thing with all the randomness and

AK: Mm hmm.

Matt: Amazing.

So fun.

gonna go I'm gonna go with the first
time that we played DC20 with Coach,

uh, the Dungeon Coach, and I'm not
saying that because, like, it was,

you know, immediately the best game
we had ever experienced, it was one

of them, certainly, but like, uh, it
was just such a, I had heard about

him online, and he seemed like a swell
fella, and then going there, and I

just, we had played a bunch of really
bad games, and I just wanted to end it.

Gary Con on a high.

And we sat down, and, the,
the environment was correct.

It was not too loud.

It was later at night and just
watching him, his brain kind of open.

He is a great dungeon master.

He really is.

And, and watching his brain kind of
open up and share this thing I thought

was going to be another Tales of the
Valiant, another sort of 5e thing,

which I You know, like I've said, it
would have been great, but I think that

that was very fun and I enjoyed it.

But then what it then
meant for us all as a team,

AK: Mm hmm.

Matt: Moving forward.

To have him on this show, to be able
to reach out and to say, Well, look,

we are, we are doing what we want and
we set out to do in 2023, which is get

out there, go to these conventions, see
if we like it, meet people, you know,

get to know people who are as crazy
passionate about this world as we are.

And he is one of those.

You know, he is one of those people.

And so, I think that was a high for me.

And it, plus it was a
really great one shot.

I will say this, it was, it
was a better one shot than,

than the, the subsequent one.

And the one that's in the Alpha.

I'll just, side note.

That's a spicy take.

But, his first, that
was a really fun thing.

It was, it, it had a lot
of, Dimensions to it.

We were kind of in this forest thing.

There were, there were running
goblins on wolves and stuff.

So it was swinging from trees.

I would say that that's, that was,
that was a highlight for me this

AK: Yeah.

Fitz says that

game was the origin of a lot of what

Matt: Exactly.

Thank you.

That's a way better, of course, way
better way of putting it than this over

explained mouth, but yes, it was the
origin of a lot of things that came.

Y'all out there came, we would not
know you if that game hadn't happened,

um, we would not have been as inspired
to do what we did this year, yeah.

That win for me.

AK: Everything that you said.

All of it.

Matt: Mhm.

AK: great.

All of it wonderful.

Um, and also, it scratches one
of my, like, cornerstones of my

spiritual philosophies, which is

What is meant for you
will not pass you by.

You don't have to chase anything.

Like it's all just coming to you.

And, and when I think back about that,
there was no reason that that session

should have caught your attention.

It

wasn't particularly well labeled.

The, the, we've talked about this, the
UX of the Gary Con signup was abysmal.

And

how on earth

Matt: Yeah.

How

AK: you managed to both see that it was
happening, I saw your wheels turning

because you and Fitz and I were all
on Zoom trying to make this happen,

and, and there was space and we were able
just to slide right in when everything

else was such a like heated grab to get
seats at any given table proves to me

like we are moving in the direction you

that we are supposed to be moving in.

We were always supposed to meet Coach.

We were always supposed to
meet our new friends here.

We were always supposed to
do this weird shit together.

Um, and like, to exactly what you and
Fitz just said, it was the origin of

kind of like what was to come after that,
that really shaped the rest of the year

Matt: Yeah.

AK: for me slash us.

Matt: So let's keep it up.

AK: Okay.

Do you like

wanna come on my podcast
some more next year?

Matt: Yeah, could I, may I co host
this podcast with you next year?

A couple of times maybe?

AK: maybe?

all

of the time

Matt: Oh, I'll have to
check my calendar, dude.

I'm a very busy person.

AK: are

Matt: Oh yeah,

AK: Very busy and important.

I

Matt: yeah, yeah.

I want, I just want more.

I mean, I, I truly, last, last year was,
and the last year's podcast, The Farewell,

was like all these things we wanted to do.

I just want more of what we did this year.

Bigger and more and, and,
and I think there's room.

I think we have room in our
hearts and I think we have room

in our, in our, in our schedules.

We'll make room for it and we'll So, yeah,
I want to meet more people like y'all,

AK: And that's the thing, like
going back to the question

about like, how can y'all help?

Like, yeah, this would be the
goal that this becomes our focus.

Like, you know, one thing that made
me sad is I was looking back through

Patreon and realizing, like, we
just haven't had the capacity to do

like a blooper reel lately, or Yeah.

Morning announcements, like we
want to get back to doing more

of that stuff, but sometimes like

we got to actually do client work

And stuff like that too.

Um, so,

Matt: that we're lucky.

We know that we're super lucky,
and we've said that we would still

be doing this podcast even if we,
if we never make a dime for it.

And that's totally true.

But yes, please, but please, but please.

Uh, let's all work together
to, to let this be a

AK: I'm not saying I want the
like, we need to make all the

money in the world doing it.

but

I am saying I want to do more of it.

And in order to be able to do more of
it, we have to replace some, some income

with some different streams.

Matt: that's cool.

AK: And yeah I would love it if we could
put these out, you know, like, what

if next year we could have like, 24

episodes of ADHD 20.

And I would that well that's the goal we
did 18, 19 next year we are on on par for

especially if we start recording in 2023.

man what a favor we are doing to 2024
Matt and Alison yeah but I want a

bonus reel to go with every episode

Matt: do do do do do Yeah,

AK: those of

you who are listening back now.

Um,

Matt: for, for, for liking this
podcast and, and listening to it and,

and then, you know, thinking about it
with us and, uh, it's just so great.

It's the best life.

Yeah.

AK: I agree.

Matt: Yep.

So, thanks.

AK: See

you in a

2024.

Matt: See you in

AK: see you next week, but

the rest

of

Matt: and then in 2024,
coming, coming at you,

AK: fireworks And

the

Matt: the thing, and it's sneaking through
the grass, it's gonna get you, it's gonna

AK: but the silly hats didn't
fit on our heads with our

headphones

So silly hat.

Matt: ADHD20 is a creation from
the Pocket Dimension, a multiverse

where we explore neurospice,

Alison: rolling dice,

Matt: and so much more.

Come chat with us in our
Discord server, open to all.

The join link is in our show notes.

Alison: Ready to level up your support?

Check out

The Pocket Dimension's Patreon, where
you can get access to bonus content, be

the first to hear new episodes, and even
play TTRPGs with us and our friends.

Matt: The best way you can help
us, though, is just to share the

gift of ADHD20 with the people
that you think will like it.

Alison: We love that you're here.

Thank you for entering
The Pocket Dimension.