ADHd20 s03e01
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Alison: [00:00:00] So when we end this, there may be a point where you might have to keep the browser window window open while it uploads

Brittany: Okay.

Alison: Winder.

Matt: Keep the browser window open y! Ha my, my, My Alabama just came soaring out of my mouth. I'm really. Sorry. Had to hear that.

ha

Alison: glad that we're recording so we can start Season 3 strong with Matt singing a weird song at me.

Matt: It, uh, you know? That's just the way it goes. Hey, Hi Matt!

Alison: Matt

Matt: Welcome to 2024!

Alison: Oh my god, Season 3, ADHd20 is here.

Matt: ADHd20? What is that?

Alison: Well Matt, it's a podcast. It definitely tries to find the intersection between ADHD.

Matt: and TTRPGs.

Alison: Can you believe that we have already put out 37 episodes?

As two people with ADHD.

Matt: I know, I know. That started as a joke.

Alison: It [00:01:00] didn't. It started in earnest, didn't it?

Matt: Yeah. But who knew that we would have 37 hours worth of stuff to talk about?

Alison: Who knew? Well, we're about to see how much more we can push that limit.

Matt: Hmm. We are. And, and. Honestly, I actually credit our guest today for being the impetus for many, many, many of those episodes because, uh, she has, been my ADHD coach for the last two years and I feel like almost every week there's something where I

Alison: Coach says!"

Matt: Yeah, Coach says this, oh yeah, and I didn't know that this was about my brain, and then she's like, yeah, no, that's a part of it, yeah, that's of it, What? Are you serious? Bumping into tables? What? I

Alison: I probably shouldn't admit this to her, but I feel like I've kind of been getting some free coaching.

Matt: It's true, that's

Alison: You [00:02:00] should send me a bill this point.

Brittany: I'm sure it happens all the time, it's just not always in podcast form.

Alison: For all the good little morsels you've already been dropping. So, yes, tell us about, tell us about Brittany, Matt. Introduce us officially.

Matt: This is Brittany Smith, and, uh, I f

Alison: Da da

Matt: One of is,

Alison: Dun-na-na-na-da

Matt: Oh,

Alison: Oh

Matt: So I, ironically, or that's, it's probably not ironic. It's, uh, interestingly enough, I, I heard about Brittany on a podcast.

Alison: That's a full circle moment, my friend!

Matt: I know, It's the, it's a, this is a dream, this is a dream come true. Yes, I heard about, I heard her on a podcast that I listen to regularly, uh, and uh, it is, mostly Apple focused. Yeah.

Brittany: They're Apple enthusiasts, anyway.

Matt: They're, they're enthusiasts and I don't know, [00:03:00] I actually walked away from that listening and saying, man, that seems like some kind of call from the universe because I had been thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about finding someone to kind of talk to about ADHD and I said, it's time for me to learn as a, as a GD 50 freaking year old.

Alison: Grown-ass man

Matt: Grown-ass man! What the hell? Uh, take care of yourself.

So, uh, and I said, well, but she's, pfft, whatever. She goes to all the Apple cool things, she's like way too cool, she would never talk to me, oh my

Alison: I believe the term used was rockstar.

Matt: Yeah, she's like a rock star, like a pirate ninja rock star.

Brittany: Out of the two of us? Really? Really?

Alison: Right? Right? It'll never not be funny, Brittany.

Matt: It's, oh, it's funny. Oh, it's so funny. No, but anyway, so I just took a chance. Well, actually going to her website, and it was just this Star Wars [00:04:00] emblazoned masterpiece of, of like, nerdery. I was like, okay, I'll take a chance. And here we are two years later, and, and 37 Episodes later, this is Brittany Smith.

Welcome, welcome, welcome,

Brittany: Oh, thank you. Sure.

Alison: A question out of the gate that came to my mind while you were giving that delicious introduction, Matthew.

Matt: Thank

Alison: Cause, so the lead into all of this is that Matt and I, while he was in the process of like finding you and wondering if he could work with you, uh, had asked me several times, Like, we talked about, like, our backgrounds with therapy, right?

Cause that's something, uh, that, that he and I both believe in. And it's a great thing. And I remember Matt saying, you know, like, that, like a therapist isn't exactly what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a coach. So can you talk to us for just a minute about, you know, kind of your practice, um, and what it means, uh, to be a coach on this level?

Brittany: And I mean, just to start off from therapy, like one of the big [00:05:00] things with coaching is we really try to always look forward. We may learn things from the past, but um, and other therapists never do that. They do sometimes, but um, but that is one of the big things is, is sort of being your partner in whatever it is that you're trying to do. And help you get past those barriers, whatever they are.

If someone's an ADHD coach then, you know, certain amount of ADHD specific training is great, um, so that we can use, use that information to, um, to help people and to, there's a, there's a little bit of education in ADHD coaching. Um, it really comes from like, where are you and meeting, meeting the client wherever they are and helping them to move to a place that is closer to where they want to be.

Matt: I encourage anybody Yeah. would like to learn more about themselves, uh, with ADHD, if you are diagnosed, [00:06:00] uh, to please go.

It's, it's, it has been amazing. Working with Brittany has been amazing. Please go, go talk to Brittany, number, first and foremost, but if you're, if you're on the fence in any way, I'm just saying, don't be. Just,

Brittany: Whatever you do, you do want to find somebody who is a good fit for you and they'll vary. Um, my other biases is I'm on the board for the ADHD coaches organization and we do have a directory of coaches. So you can. Oh, I was happy to hear from you. You don't have to wonder if you're rockstar enough, but, um, but you can also check out other ADHD coaches on a listing, um, where we do ask, um, we as the ADHD coaches organization ask that people have a certain amount of ADHD specific training and a certain amount of coaching training to be on the

Matt: Yeah,

Alison: I I love that. Well, and that's something that we've talked about on past episodes. Obviously the biggest question that Matt and I get as part of this podcast is like, how do I know if I have [00:07:00] ADHD and what's the diagnosis and, you know, like all of these different things, which Matt and I are not qualified to answer and always try and make that very clear.

But one thing that we've talked about at great length is like, try people out. You're not, you're not, you know, stuck into it and find that fit.

Brittany: Cause, cause having a good fit matters a lot.

Alison: Yes. Well, I can see the difference. I thank you for being a very good fit for my friend. Um, for therefore passing your wisdom along to me. Before we get too deep into any of these subjects that I know we're all dying to talk about, I think we need to do the the first ADHd100 table roll of the season. Uh, Brittany, will you do us a favor and roll that d100 you got teed up there?

Brittany: What? Okay. So I got a two.

Alison: A two?

Matt: Great.

Alison: Holy shnikes.

That's I made that weird face and I'm looking at it. I'm like, no, no, that is exactly what it is

That is, wow. Okay.

Brittany: my Dice by PCalc App.[00:08:00]

Matt: Yes, It's strangely, it's a tiny bit hard to find in the app store. I don't know why. You almost have to say Dice PCalc because I think there are other ones, but this one is it's the Ferrari of Dice

Brittany: It's amazing.

Matt: Don't even think about getting another one.

Alison: Okay, so to give you some background on this, Brittany, this d100 table is the brainchild of myself and our lore keeper, Fitz. Perfect. Um, yes, she has a sound effect. Um, uh, so some of the questions are ADHD related. Some of them are D&D related, and some are just weird.

And you've gotten a question that's just weird, and I love it. So, uh, if you had to swap your legs with the legs of any other animal, what animal would you choose, and why?

Brittany: Wow. Given my history with, which we don't have time to get into, with [00:09:00] mermaids, I would have to say fish.

Alison: Right answer!

Matt: Wow. Bravo.

Brittany: something bigger like a dolphin, but you know, yeah,

Alison: Oh, oh,

Matt: There it is.

Alison: That's a good answer. I love that. Matt, do you have a, an answer on

Matt: Any other animal? I, you know, I really, this is gonna be surprising. Maybe. Uh, because, you know, I did, as we've talked about many times, I did not really have a religious upbringing, but I sure did love Narnia. And I just thought Mr. Tumnus was the coolest dude! I just thought he looked cool, I liked how, you know, creepy he was.

I think I would go full Pan. Full

Alison: I

love

Matt: Gwut. Yeah.

Alison: Um, there's so many good ones to choose from. And I would have a different answer every day of the week. Today Alison is feeling a strong call to penguin.

Matt: [00:10:00] How? Would that

Alison: Well, for a couple of reasons, you know, like penguins, they do that cute little widdle waddle, which

Matt: Yeah

Alison: you know, and like, nobody's mad at it. Like, penguins, like, go at their own pace and take their time and, like, there's, you know, like, they can't go faster and so I feel like if I adopted that lower part of my form, it's like, I'll get there when I get there and I think, like, that's the vibe I want to have.

I'll get there when I get there.

Matt: Constantly in motion, though. Constantly, like, working. You're working it. Yeah, you're, yeah, you own it, but you're, you're like, I'll get there when I

Alison: I got there when I get there. I'm gonna widdle waddle, which is a phrase that I'm stealing very liberally from Fitz.

Matt: Mm hmm.

Alison: So that's, that's the first thing that popped into my head. So that's what we're going with

Brittany: Okay. Okay. Okay.

Matt: Love it.

Alison: Well, now that that's out of the way, let's get down to business.

Matt: Yes, We, we have to have this cursory ask, I know the answer, but I don't, we've never really talked a great deal about it, but, [00:11:00] do you play role playing games? Do you play? Ayyy!

Brittany: So I have played on occasion, um, but not regularly enough to feel confident in my knowledge, just enough to make the occasional analogy. We have a group that could theoretically do it, but we have one member of our group who is, like, officially not a nerd, and, um, so it would take convincing her to do it regularly, but I think my husband would be on board, and so it's a thing I could see happening more, but it has not happened yet.

Matt: What is that like to not be a nerd? Like I, I true, I'm not trying to be funny. I truly don't, in 2023, I don't understand

Brittany: And, and I could ask her if she identifies, but she's like my token, like, not really nerdy friend, and I know, right?

And so, it's,

I

Alison: hope she doesn't watch this episode and see the face I just made. It was a knee [00:12:00] jerk reaction.

Brittany: Why would she ever watch a thing that's ADHD and, D&D related?

Alison: You're right, you're right, because she's not a nerd. You got it, you got it. Okay, good. Saved by the logic.

Brittany: Totally saved, yeah.

Matt: But my question is, so, so our friend Fitz, who we've mentioned, she is our lore keeper of, of many, many things, but also, uh, but most definitely the lore keeper of Star Wars lore, um, is definitely knows the most, is, you know, read all the books, knows everything about it, she loves the RPG uh, set in that universe, but you have not played that

Brittany: I have not played it, I have friends who have, and my husband has actually, actively expressed interest in it.

Alison: Okay,

Matt: Okay.

Brittany: If our other friends, who are far more experienced, would like to DM it, I think that would be a thing that would happen.

Matt: I'm, I'm, I am seeing some kind of kickass, [00:13:00] ADHD Star Wars, Neurodivergent actual play happening, right? I'm calling it, right here.

Alison: We're all about speaking our desires

out loud

Matt: speak our desires out

Alison: major manifestors in here. So I am full woo and I have every day working on Matt bumping up the woo he's

Matt: Yeah, true. It's true.

Alison: He's my okay, I'm gonna put this in Star Wars terms. He's my Woo Padawan.

Matt: Awww.

Alison: How'd I

Brittany: Ok, alright

Matt: Um, and yes, so, so Star Wars and Apple computers, and what, where, where is the, where's the origin story for your love of of Apple Computer.

Brittany: So I was always raised with computers. My mom was a programmer, um, so we had computers in our house from 83 on. Which means I have no memory of not having a computer in my house. I wasn't like programming or anything, but like, you know, very, very [00:14:00] comfortable.

And, um, and then Windows Vista came out when my computer was getting ready to die. And, um, and I was like, I, I tried buying one and it fell apart, like, within the two week return window, and it was a, it was a nightmare, and, and I was like, well,

Matt: The worst.

Brittany: I, I can't keep doing this, so I said, if my, if my other nerdy friend would sit down and show me, like, all of the equivalents so I won't have to feel like I'm starting from scratch, then I would try getting a Mac. And then that was, that was it.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Rewinding back to 1983 for a co lore drop here. Do you remember what that computer was?

Brittany: That one was a Kaypro.

Alison: So was! Ok, so there is a picture of me sitting at a Kaypro probably somewhere around 1983, 1984. No pants. All pictures of me as a toddler. I am never wearing pants.

Matt: Do you have penguin legs, though?

Alison: I don't, [00:15:00] but like, I'll, we can, we can share that. I made Matt share an embarrassing picture of himself in one of our shows. So I'll, I'll, I'll pull this one up. But I feel like,

Matt: It's a good one. Yeah.

Alison: I feel like it like set the tone for my entire life, like pantsless in front of a computer. Right? But it was, I don't like hard pants.

What? But it was Kaypro. And that was what, like, started the curiosity young, was that being in my house as a toddler and me loving that little green screen and just making the bing bangs go on it.

And my love of Macs actually came from Matt. During his rockstar days, he was all about it. And Is that right? I guess, I guess we do. But yeah, you were such a prolific Mac user

Matt: I I was.

Alison: it made me curious.

Matt: I bet there are a ton, a ton, a ton of people with ADHD that gravitated to [00:16:00] Apple even before everybody gravitated to Apple. Because, yeah.

Brittany: I mean, this does coincide, so I got it, and then, um, and then I started moving towards the psychology, cognitive neuroscience stuff, and, um, and as I was doing that, I also got diagnosed with ADHD, and, um, and I was like, oh, wow, so this environment is much better for me, and I'm like, and I could see why, and so that's why one of the things that gets me real excited—or angry— is interface stuff because it may or may not work better with my brain.

And so, so I tend to be very, very opinionated about interfaces and like, what does it look like? I have a whole series on, on YouTube about, uh, organizing your apps on your phone so that it is a, uh, more pleasant place for you to be.

Matt: Yes, mm hmm

Alison: yeah, Matt's the reason that I picked up a Mac and is the reason that I [00:17:00] realized I had ADHD. Congratulations, Mattie.

Brittany: There you go.

Matt: Check

Check.

Alison: Is also one of the reasons I play D&D, so all the major things in my life. Yeah. All roads lead to Matthew Bivins.

What

can

Matt: One thing I had I had nothing how about this segue you ready for this?

One thing that I don't have I don't think I have any claim on is your playing The Sims.

Alison: That was not you.

That was just a product of me being a teen in the 90s.

Matt: Yes, a teen, a teen in the 90s, um, and the reason that we bring up the Sims is because one of the things we wanted to talk to Brittany about today was, we learn about ADHD we learn about computers we learn about uh things that we like and each one of us have all all I gravitated towards this game, The Sims. And it kept me alive on the road for many, many, many, many months, like, just zoning out, and it's one [00:18:00] of the weirdest ideas still. I'm playing a game about, where I have to, like, especially the early Sims, where really, it was, you were just getting through the day, it was literally, and I could not explain it to anybody, I certainly couldn't explain why i, I was so into it. Um, but yeah, so, so we're, we, we wanted to kind of dive a little bit into the idea of, of how the Sims mechanics or Dungeons & Dragons mechanics, uh, kind of need to have this, this attribute bar, this needs bar, levels, where if, if you, if you fall to a certain level, you hurt yourself or you go insane, or you, uh, start crying or you drown in a pool,

or

Alison: yourself in the bathroom.

Matt: or you lock yourself in a bathroom [00:19:00] or you know, you, you, you get weak or something.

And, uh, so Brittany and I were talking about just how like, people with ADHD brains,

I equated it to kind of German cars vs. Japanese cars, I'm not sure this is 100 percent correct, but like German cars will have so many pieces, but it will somehow be able to keep going on the road, even if one of those major pieces breaks and you'll take it to the mechanic and they'll be like, wow, sure, I'm glad you brought this car in because this, you know, the, the, the rear driver tire is completely missing, but the car is still running, right?

But a Japanese car is much better at like letting you know, hey, this is. This is not working, therefore, I'm just gonna kind of stop a lot of the things. Uh, so, yeah, I don't know, it's just like, I got really into the idea of how [00:20:00] we push things. We push things too much, and we all have the same bars, I don't know, it's a very interesting thing to, to kind of think about, like, how can some people, number one, keep a balance, right?

And then how can some people have, like, a pure imbalance, but keep living day to day?

Alison: With us, we tend to be in the like, I'm just like, Oh my God, I'm missing a whole wheel.

Like, it's that bad. And there were never any like signal flares sent up prior to that. Okay, tread's getting low. Okay, air pressure's going down. Okay, like, so we have some kind of warning. And that's so true. Like, I don't realize I'm burnt out and overstimulated until I already am so far down that path.

There is no pulling me back until I can have, like, some kind of full nervous system reset and rest. Um, God, that's dangerous, but it's just like how we all feel wired a lot of the [00:21:00] times, I think.

Brittany: There are

Matt: us about that.

Brittany: who will try to, well, who, who can learn more. What, what are my cues that like, how do I start noticing those warning signs a little bit sooner? Um, but, but naturally left to our own devices, we are less likely to pay attention to them because they aren't very interesting.

Alison: Mm hmm.

Brittany: that we're ignoring are not that interesting, or we wouldn't be ignoring them.

Matt: But, but we're still able to kind of push through.

Brittany: For awhile, yeah, right? Like, for a while, until you can't, and then your, your mechanic is like, I don't know how you've been driving, but okay, we'll try to fix everything now.

Matt: Right.

Brittany: And yeah, like, if we aren't noticing it, we'll go, but like, but now, now it's a really high car bill. Because [00:22:00] I wasn't doing all that maintenance along the way. And now you're reminding me that I have a low air tire warning on my car. Um, that I've been ignoring. But there are, I mean there are some ways that like, if we want to prevent that, and now I'm super burned out. Because pulling out of burnout is harder than avoiding it.

Matt: Mm hmm.

Brittany: Um, once you know how, right? Pulling out of burnout is, is more of a process. It is something that takes time. Not a single long rest will do.

Alison: Right?

Matt: Right.

Alison: That's not good news, Brittany. That's not what I wanted to hear

Brittany: It's really not good news. I'm so sorry.

Matt: Oh.

Brittany: What?

Matt: So, so many, so many of these podcasts, I have like a moment, or Alison has a moment where I'm like. Is this why? [00:23:00] And the thing that you just said was, uh, you just said, a long rest is not going to fill up all of those bars the way it does in 5E, which is why I hate that rule! Is that why I hate that rule?

Because it's so ridiculous to me because I know for a fact that I could go to bed right now At 1. 40 Central Time, and I could wake up in the morning, and there would still be a bar that's like not completely full. I know that to be the fact. Uh,

Brittany: Well, what if it's a, like, to go to the Sims metaphor, what if it's a different bar? And that's one of the reasons that I like to use the Sims bar metaphor is, you know, no amount of sleep is going to make up for the fact that that bladder one is red.

Matt: Right.

Alison: Uh, can you, can you kind of start from the beginning on the Sims Bar attribute analogy, just because like we've [00:24:00] talked about it a little bit on the side and I want to make sure. Sometimes Matt and I will get to the end of episodes and we realize we didn't fill in full sentences.

Matt: We didn't finish thoughts.

Alison: Didn't finish

Brittany: What?! Nobody with ADHD does that!. Um,

Alison: So yeah, if you'll, can you walk us through everything that you'd like from, because I, as somebody probably farthest removed from playing, I'm

Brittany: we're going to be, we're going to be different than the Sims. Like we will have our own bars, but, um, but there are, you know, on the Sims, like they'll have food and bladder and, um, fun. And social, like these different needs that need to get met and you can still send them off to work if, I'm thinking of Sims 3 specifically, because that was the last one I played.

Um, you can send them off to work, um, with their social really low and not let them converse with their co workers while they're there, um, because that is an option. And so you send them off, but they're not going to get promoted as fast. Like, they're going to work, like I can make myself go work when [00:25:00] my needs are not getting met at all.

I can make myself do that sometimes, but how much I can do, like how much work I can do when I am there and, and you know, for those of us who are more independent workers, like it gets worse and we'll see it faster. So like I can show up at the place I'm supposed to be working. How much I will get done may not be as effective based on, you know, were my bars filled up when I got there?

Alison: Right. That's

Brittany: Like if it's taking me a really long time to do something that theoretically shouldn't, there's probably something missing. Um, and, and I can still be driving, I'm still going, but like, you know, maybe not as fuel efficiently because my tire is flat.

Matt: Right.

Alison: And I wonder, I wonder how much like they dovetail, you know, so like when I am in procrastination mode, all week long, I've had something that's been fairly simple that I knew that I could do in an hour or two. And [00:26:00] all week long, I, you know, kind of just and found other things to do instead, because I think other bars aren't where they need to be right now.

And that, that one task seemed so much harder because I'm depleted on energy. Apparently didn't go to the bathroom enough. My, my bladder bar is on

Matt: You peed in the bed. Yeah.

Alison: know,

Brittany: Sims will make you take care of the bladder bar, it'll just impact your hygiene bar.

Alison: Okay, yeah,

Matt: yeah,

Alison: But yeah, it's, it's interesting to think about that, that like, is the root cause of my procrastination, not that I don't want to do or don't think I could do the task, but that I'm not getting something in some area that I need.

Brittany: Yeah, and sometimes what we need to get the thing done is a tool, like, you know, because this, we may have to swap metaphors a little bit if we're thinking about like a bar that's my sort of cognitive energy. It's going to take more of that willpower of that cognitive energy to do a thing if I don't have [00:27:00] supports in place for it. Like, I'm thinking of a task that I really, really, really don't want to do. Um, if I have the option to do it with somebody else, because what people commonly call body doubling or co working, um, is a very, very effective tool for people with ADHD. So if I have the option to do that, maybe I should just do that instead of berating myself until I finally get around to doing the thing.

Alison: Point of clarification, not berating yourself is an option?

Brittany: Yes. Uh, it is, actually.

Alison: Wild.

Matt: It's so

Alison: Who knew?

Matt: So wild. It's really just managing all manner of things that I never understood to be ADHD. Let's, let's keep, keep with Alison's, uh, example, she has to do this thing, she doesn't want to do it, um, but The [00:28:00] executive dysfunction kicks in, right?

And, and she is like, suddenly all these other things are more important. Like, how do you become aware of the bars? I guess is what I'm vaguely trying to say. How do you, how do you become aware of them?

Because I know that I will let them just empty out before I even realize that I need to body double and I won't, it just won't even happen, so ha, yeah,

Alison: Yep.

Brittany: So there's different things that work for different people. Some people will do like mindfulness practices or body scans if you're trying to literally, you know, Oh, I'm really anxious right now. That is this tightness in my chest or whatever it is. Like there are, and there are, there are even coaches, not me, but other coaches who specialize in somatic sensory processing of different types.

And so there's, that's one way some people journal. or, or will talk about it with their [00:29:00] coach. Um, have it be a thing where it's like, I've been having an issue with this. Okay, let's talk about it. Like, what, what is it like? You know, start noticing it. If, if I see something and I try to not be pushy, but if I see something that is like, this is a really common side effect of this other thing.

And, and somebody here has heard me say it before, like, so I'm really concerned, but it seems like. Not that invested in this project, and you're spending a lot of time and energy on it, like, are you getting your other bars filled up? you know, Sometimes I'll be coaching somebody, especially new, and I'll be like, can we talk about what, what kinds of things do you do as a hobby or for creative expression?

Because that's a really common ADHD Sims bar that we don't always pause to fill up, is, is making sure we are doing something creatively.

Um, I have friends who are really into yarn crafts and that's, that's their form of creative expression. Um, I make weirdo videos. [00:30:00] Everyone has their own things that, um, that they can do that, um, can fill that up. Like feeling like we have a sense of meaning and direction can be one of the bars. And if we're not feeling that, if we're not touching base with that, we're going to run out of that juice a lot faster because we can't see where it's leading to or that it's leading somewhere meaningful.

And I do not remember your question anymore.

Matt: That's okay, no, that's still, you're still answering it, yeah, but, because I was gonna say one thing that we, we did in the last couple years when I was at a place where I was like, yeah, Man, I'm having a hard time with what I'm working on, and I know I need to work on this, I know I need to make money, I need to support my business, I need to support my brother, I need to support my family, I need to help and do this, but I was getting very lost, and, and Brittany said, okay, so let's just just come up with a name for [00:31:00] that thing that I wasn't aware of.

And it ended up being Media Producer, right? Which is mostly because I just don't like the word content creator, right? So it's just sounded fancier. So yeah, then every week, she could check in. I could give her concrete things, and bit by bit I could crawl out of this, and I started to be aware of that bar, right? So that's a great answer, a lot of times when you are stuck, and when one bar is like knocking you down mentally or whatever, uh, sometimes you have to say, oh, let's fill, let's fill another one up, uh, that you do like, that does come easily, that you are really inspired by, and sure enough, sure enough, once I had a name for it, and I could see the bar going up.

So that's a great answer, but what about the ones like [00:32:00] exercise. Where if you are not someone, you know it exists, definitely know it exists.

I know that exercise is important, I can absolutely tell the difference when I am or when I'm not, uh, you know, trying to, even just going out for a walk. So what do we do when we are, when we've got that bar and it's very low and you're like, you keep looking at it? We kind of alluded to this earlier, but like you keep looking and you're like, yeah, but look at all these other bars I really should be doing and this one just

Brittany: So the first thing I would recommend, especially if you've been having a thing you've been meaning to do for a really, really long time and haven't been doing, is stop trying to do that one thing. Whatever that was, stop trying to do that one, because we have built this very unhealthy relationship with ourselves around whatever that one thing was.

I had a client who, for them, it was like going to a, like, a gym. Gym, gym.

Alison: Mm[00:33:00]

Matt: Yeah.

Brittany: And, just had this very negative relationship with it and, you know, I'm sure paid for it for some number of months without going. This person recently, uh, built a gym at their house, and has been exercising regularly, and it's been great, because it didn't have that same thing around it.

Sometimes having the reason, and a reason that resonates with you, as opposed to the reason that your doctor told you, or, you know, I need to get in better shape so, because swimsuit season's coming. Unless you really care a lot about that swimsuit, it's not going to be very motivating to you. So figuring out like, okay, when can I feel it in my gut, feel that motivation, and, and it may take work to find it.

Um, for me, it was in graduate school realizing that I work faster and focus better when I've been exercising. And so telling myself I didn't have that hour was a lie because I was going to save that hour in, in work time, because I would work that much faster. And [00:34:00] so for some people it's like, Oh, I'm doing this so I can focus. So I feel better about myself. Um, exercise can help with anxiety and depression. So sometimes finding the why, sometimes finding an activity that you don't feel pressured by that can actually be enjoyable.

Some people doing it with somebody else, like having a walking buddy. Because then you're bringing in the body doubling and like now it's more pleasant because it's not just I'm making myself do it. Like what are the things that will take the pressure off and allow it to happen more organically?

And, and different people with ADHD have different blocks, too.

Matt: yeah, yeah.

Brittany: sometimes it's, well, if I'm not doing all the things I feel like I should be doing, then I'm going to do none of them. Um, you know, if I don't have time to go on the elliptical and run and lift weights and do yoga, then I'm not doing any of it.

Or just the decision fatigue of picking something can be really hard. Or somebody who had, used to be in really good shape and now isn't for whatever reason. Like, [00:35:00] having to come face to face with that is painful and feels like a brand new failure of, like, seeing how far I can run now compared to what I used to do before, say, an injury.

Um, like, that is really hard and feeling good about where we are right now can be really hard.

Alison: We're going for all the topics and I'm like, I just don't do it. I just avoid it completely. What is yours then? What is, what is your, what is the part that you know exists and you're like, uh uh, I just, I can't, I don't know. What, that you

my, that's my point is I know that it's exercise. I don't do it like that's my, and I'm not telling you that's a good answer. Do not do as I say here, kiddies. This is not good.

Brittany: It's so important for people to hear what's real.

Like, exactly. much of what we should do, like, out there. What's real and what other people are struggling with matters a lot.

Yes.

Alison: [00:36:00] Yeah, for sure. To the points that you guys are making, like, I did get a walking pad because I just reckon, like, I'm not, my excuse right now is that I live in a neighborhood, there's one loop I can make and I'm bored. But I

Brittany: Oh yeah!

Alison: car and drive somewhere else.

Like, I always have, like, oh, I'm going to, like, go explore. I'm not going to do that. If I have to, like, put on shoes and get in my car and drive somewhere, it's not going to happen. So I got a walking pad, you know, and then that way, at least when I'm having potato time, at the end of the day, I can get in 30 minutes walking on it.

Brittany: Any more movement than you are doing right now is movement to feel good about. I have some

I have really bad news for you. You're okay with a downer?

Matt: Always.

Brittany: Humans not programmed to be 100 percent happy. We will habituate and our threshold for happy will change.

Alison: We'll co sign on that all day, every day.

Matt: Yeah.

Brittany: So, ADHD or no ADHD, it's not, it's not a thing. There are no highs without lows.

Matt: [00:37:00] Do you think Do you think that people with ADHD strive to be happier more often? Do you think? Is that a thing? I don't even know why I said that, but I just suddenly wondered.

Alison: I wonder if there's the, like, catastrophizing element of that, right? Like, I'm looking at everybody else. It's kind of like, you know, the problem that so many people have with social media, whereas you're seeing someone's highlight reel and you're being like, oh, well, and you compare yourself. And so I wonder if the catastrophizing element of our brains is like, well, everybody else is happy and I'm the problem, um, you know, about this.

Brittany: And we do that. We do that even sometimes in a world where we're surrounded by other people with ADHD because we're all trying to mask and get by.

Matt: hmm, mm hmm,

Alison: Yeah. And I have like, so we talked about my woo streak earlier, like my woo woo ness now understands that there are no highs without the lows.

You have to have that, you have to have that. For balancing the [00:38:00] force and because if I don't have the down in the dumps bad, you know, weeks, I don't under, I don't appreciate how great the wins are.

That is life by design right there. And that's something that I have worked really hard on this year, to exactly Matt's point of like, no, I don't think I always have to be happy. But I have learned I don't always have to be stimulated, and I think that's the thing the ADHD brain is always chasing, is the stimulation that we labeled as happiness.

Maybe?

Brittany: Hey, hey, stimulation is one of, like, stimulation is one of those bars. There are types of stimulation that do not involve a screen or any technology. Um,

Matt: hmm, mm

Brittany: Like stimulation can also be a walk in the woods, because I'm looking, because that is such an information dense thing visually, but it is the kind that will calm our nervous system as opposed to agitate it unless you run into a bear or something.

Alison: I was gonna say, I'll full circle this for a minute [00:39:00] then, like back to kind of what we were talking about, about like, how do we reset? And how do we notice the signs before we get there? There was a day not too long ago, where I crashed. I hit such an overstimulated, level. And I, I didn't know it until I got there. And then, but what I was proud of in that moment is I recognized it immediately. And I think that there were parts of my life where I wouldn't have recognized it for hours, if not days later, and would have just been a raging bitch. Instead, so instead it was like, day comes, all of these like, big emotion, huge things happen.

I hit that pinnacle of overstimulation, crash, and then went, I'm gonna step away.

Brittany: Yeah.

Alison: This isn't good for me. And to your point was like, I'm going to get away from my screen. I'm going to, the things that normally bring me joy, like talking to my friends, like being on my phone, like, you know, suddenly weren't and I had to go for a [00:40:00] walk.

And then like, just put my phone and my iPad down. I guess is the big question is that like, I didn't recognize the signs that I was heading for that overstimulation, but I recognized that the second that it happened, and

Brittany: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that's, that's good. By the way, um, time in green space is a, a Sims bar for many people with ADHD. And then, uh, you'd asked before about, um, being more aware of it, I, so I have a client who, after a certain amount of time around family will, like, have a, A little bit of a shutdown and, um, not, not treat their family the way they would prefer, and, um, and so every time this person gets together with their family for an extended period of time, a lot of times we'll talk about, like, so what's the plan?

Like, how are you going to get a break? And so, like, um, I don't remember if this was Thanksgiving or something like that, um, and they were like, okay, well, I'm going to walk the dog at this time. So that I can get away and get some space because this person has not [00:41:00] figured out a way to notice it before it hits because, and it is harder when you're surrounded by more people to be internally focused.

And so, um, so like, okay, how do I regularly make sure I'm taking those breaks? Because I may not feel it coming until it's there already.

Alison: Yeah.

Brittany: How do I plan ahead of time for those breaks?

Alison: So in the spiritual realm, we call that prepaving, where you sit down, and you decide at the beginning of the day how that day is going to go and how you're going to feel. And you put those, you know, kind of like signpost moments, milestones, whatever you want to call it, um, in order to influence that, because you recognize that you can't control all of the variables that are gonna, I can, I can sit here and be like, I'm gonna be so productive today.

And then the day happens and things break and stuff goes wrong. And people are calling me and I got distracted. And then I got hungry. And then I went down a rabbit hole. Oh, yes, go.

Brittany: like, like, let's pretend that I'm playing a game of D&D

Alison: Yeah, Yeah,

Matt: Please pretend [00:42:00] that. Yes.

Brittany: I have a timer go off periodically that reminds me to just ask if I can do a perception check.

Matt: So good,

Alison: Oh, I love that.

Matt: So good. Just wherever you are.

Alison: Wherever you are, perc.... Oh my God.

Matt: So, oh

Alison: I need that in life and in D&D.

Brittany: Yes, yes.

Matt: That's what I was, that's what I was gonna say is like. I, I have started with, with Brittany to kind of set that system up, especially for any task that I know is, I'm either going to have to sit in this chair for too long, there's a danger of hyperfocus or hyperfixation or, I don't want to do it at all,

Alison: Mm hmm.

Matt: or, I'm like, want to do this, and I, oh, but here's this other thing that's more urgent, or whatever, but yeah, I've got this thing that just stops me, takes over the whole screen, and just says, look, what are you doing right now?

Are you supposed to be doing that? And if so, what are you [00:43:00] working on? And it has changed everything. But yeah,

Alison: That little flowchart thing

that

you

Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's changed everything. It's just, all I have to do is remember to start it. It's all I have to do is remember to start it. Uh,

Alison: I have to do is the hardest part that requires attention to detail and focus, but it's fine.

Matt: It's all there, as long as I remember to start it. But when I do, it really, it's a massive difference. So I love, I love that. I love the idea of, of just taking a break saying, Ah, excuse me, uh, GM, I would like to have a, uh, it is now five past the hour, I would very much like to make a

Alison: I love that so hard. I love the universalness of doing a perception check, both in game and in life. Like what's I'm going to stop. And I mean, that's, you know, like the anti anxiety, you know, tool, right? It's like, what's one thing I can see, feel, taste, smell [00:44:00] in this moment to kind of reground you when you're

feeling

Matt: that's it. Right, because it is about that regrounding because again, we don't, I, or I don't, I am not aware. I'm not aware of the things I say all the time, I'm not aware of not breathing, I'm not aware of not moving, and over and over and over, and for, for me, having a text expansion of a Zoom link means I'm not going into another app to, to copy and paste something. that I will immediately get stuck in along the way, too. So all of it, like, not only is it cool tech, but it's also very important to me. Like, it's, it's a learning journey that I, that I need, that I'm constantly trying to undertake.

And I love, I love Brittany because she'll talk about hours and hours of, of these beautiful [00:45:00] shortcuts on her phone. She's like, yeah, but that one probably broke. So, we can't even rely on, it's not a permanent thing, it's the concept, right? And, and it's, it's about taking the system,

use Obsidian. Use Notion. Use Tana. Use this. Really, just build the system. Build something that makes sense to you. And sure, something new's gonna come along. A shiny thing's gonna happen. You will move, probably. But, can you take what you've learned, and move it in, so, without too much distraction.

Alison: Yeah. All right, we solved all the problems.

Matt: We did!

Alison: Copy, print.

Matt: So, Brittany, where, where would people, if they wanted to learn all of these amazing things that you know,

if they wanted, if they wanted, where would they go to, to learn more about you and, and hire you?[00:46:00]

Brittany: So if you're looking to just casually watch videos that I've made, places like YouTube and TikTok, I am ADD Liberator. So it's just ADD Liberator but with two D's.

Alison: Liberating us from the prison that is our neurodivergent brain. I love it. Yay!

Brittany: My website is Conquer.Consulting. That's where I have my, my things up. My booking systems first come first serve so people can schedule consultations on there, so, if you'd like to chat, by all means, do that.

I do also have a ADHD community that I co founded with another ADHD coach, and it is intended for nerdy people with ADHD.

No one on here would know what that's like. Um It's called the ADHD Guild.

Matt: Okay, okay, okay. Alison, I say that you and I should join this guild together because I, I've been wanting to, this is the, this is the ADHD brain, it's like, [00:47:00] every time that Brittany mentions it, I'm like, right, dammit, the guild, it's full of nerdy people, it's like, help you with the body doubling, help you with what you're working on, help you do, she's like, it's such, such good, cool people, and then I'm like, okay, definitely, okay, I'll sign up, oh, I really need that right now, and then, Poof.

Just gone. So we

should join it

Brittany: it's not a super huge community, so the co working is dependent on, like, Who else is available? But we have a way to tag people because it's in Discord. We have a way to tag people like, hey, I'm in co working, come join me. And anyone who has signed up to receive notifications to that tag will get notified.

Alison: Alright, so here's, here's what. I want to play D&D with Brittany. I want to play Force and Destiny with Brittany. Um, I'm gonna join the ADHD, er, the ADHD Guild.

Matt: Yes. Mm

Alison: that's the thing that Matt and I are, I'm really good at kicking Matt into things. I

Matt: Oh, she, yes.

Alison: just harass him until he

gives

Matt: It's true. She's very good at it. Yeah.

Brittany: a good method.[00:48:00]

Alison: It works really, really well for us.

I'm glad that he hasn't kicked me out

Matt: yet

Alison: Exactly.

Yeah, so we'll we'll join that. We'll get in there. We'll see how it is. Yeah. Uh, man. Yeah. So, this is so much fun.

Matt: I know. This is so fun.

Alison: I love it when friends come on.

Matt: I know. I'm so glad that you said yes to coming on, uh,

Brittany: course.

Matt: Yeah, it really meant a lot and you've meant a lot to me in the last couple of years. I'm very excited about Baby X. I don't know

Brittany: Solo is our nickname.

Matt: Yes! Solo, amazing.

Brittany: It from Never tell Me the Odds

Alison: love that solo much.

Matt: I do Inspiration. Yeah, that's uh Yeah, that's good. So I'm very excited. I'm very excited for you and you deserve it and all of it and yeah, so thank you so [00:49:00] much for just teaching me so many things and allowing me to come in and excitedly talk to Alison about it and then

Alison: Thank you for teaching me so many things, even though I just got to meet you for the first time today.

Brittany: You're welcome.

Matt: Yes.

Alison: give Matt nuggets for my therapy sessions, so

we're

Matt: That's

true.

Alison: all of it off of

each

Matt: And the woo woo sessions and the woo

Alison: And the woo woo

Brittany: You'll build up the wisdom.

Matt: Yes.

Well, well, woo. woo. All aboard the WooTrain. Ahh!

podcasts. We just kind of like start making noises and then we, and we, we just go

Alison: Star Wars! Ha ha ha! Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

Matt: just that

Alison: That's it.

Matt: [00:50:00] ADHD20 is a creation from the Pocket Dimension, a multiverse where we explore neurospice,

Alison: rolling dice,

Matt: and so much more. Come chat with us in our Discord server, open to all. The join link is in our show notes.

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Matt: The best way you can help us, though, is just to share the gift of ADHD20 with the people that you think will like it.

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