Matt: Money, money, money.

Alison: You wanna a podcast?

Matt: Let's do it.

Let's do it.

Let's stop making weird noises and just.

Joe's Cafe,

Alison: New year, same host.

same shenanigans.

Matt: Oh this is, this is officially
the first episode back in 2024 because

we recorded episode 1, in 2023.

Alison: Hello everybody!,

Matt: Hi everybody,
welcome to the new year.

Alison: We're

Matt: We're taking this whole time
blindness thing to a new level.

Alison: Yeah, not only are we taking
time blindness, so let's talk you

through, dear listener, dear viewer,
what happened in the, in the minutes

leading up to this here recording sesh.

Matt: Yeah, go for it,

Alison: Uh, Matt asked me if
we were going to record today.

And I was like, nah.

And then, and then the
impulse gremlin crept up.

I had an idea and without any fleshing
out of it whatsoever, I was like,

yeah, let's, let's run with that.

That feels good.

That great.

And now here we are recording.

Matt: Yeah.

And it was inspiring because I, I wrote
down a whole three pages of stuff.

Just, just brainstorming.

Alison: So, I guess first and foremost,
welcome to Season Three of ADHd20,

the

Matt: wow!

Alison: that finds the
intersection between ADHD

Matt: and TTRPGs.

Alison: I guess that answers that
we're not coming with a new tagline

Matt: No, I guess not.

Hey, why fix it when it's

Alison: It ain't broken?

It ain't

Matt: broke.

If it isn't broken.

Alison: Um, so, so here was the
thought, the darling thought that led

to like, a, yeah, let's hop on the mics
and see if we can record a podcast.

Um, I have been feeling overwhelmed.

Uh.

I mean, since the day I was born, but
this like, and you and I were kind of

commiserating about that, uh, just last
week about just kind of, like, feeling

a little bit behind, like, we just
haven't gotten into the flow of 2024 yet.

And then, you know, a lot of times this
podcast, we, we share our success stories.

We share all the things that went
right for us, which is fantastic,

and can be helpful and should be
celebrated, when we get right, yeah.

But maybe it would be equally inspiring
for our dear listeners to share the

journey of both failure and success,

wah, wah wah wah wah wah.

Exactly.

Matt: In a sound bite.

In a soundbite.

in a sound bite.

Alison: Did I, did I over
explain something that

could have been a soundbite?

Matt: Would this be this
podcast if we didn't?

That is exactly what we're going
to talk about today is, and it's

not even about necessarily, you
know, New Year's resolutions.

It's not even about that because we're,
we're way we're way evolved past that.

We are, we don't, we don't
mess with that anymore.

This is just, we started the year, yeah!

And we are just, grr, grr, grr,
grr, grr, grr, grr, that, yeah.

But we should probably
get ourselves psyched up.

By doing the d100 table, the d100

Alison: Does that, does that
mean we're off to a weird start?

Does that mean you have it pulled up?

Matt: I do,

Alison: I don't have it pulled up.

Matt: Well then you get to roll first
and I get to tell you what you roll,

girl, girl, girl, girl, girl, girl, girl,

girl.

Alison: think that I'll roll with
some Chimerical my longest playing

character, and these dice were a gift
to me right when we started campaign

from our good friend Matt Williams.

Great name, great human.

We love all of the Matthews here.

How about 90?

Matt: How about 90?

Alright.

What is the most unusual D&D object you
have found, received, bought, in game?

Alison: Oh, man, we had some bangers
in our first, uh, in our first

campaign Jeff our DM really kind
of went out of his way to find some

fantastic uh magic items for us.

And I will admit that, know, since
then haven't had as many magic items.

That's just not something
we focus on, right?

Matt: Right.

No, Let's, let's, let's
say that correctly.

It's not something that your
current DM, me focuses on that much.

And I just forget about it.

I just forget.

But

Alison: yeah.

Um, yeah.

So I will, I will, my most memorable
magic item, uh, from that campaign

to the Yeah, I will, I will, my
most memorable magic item from that

campaign I I want to play with it more.

It was called The Ring of the Grammarian,
and it allowed me to change a spell's

by one letter, either taking away or
adding a letter, and and therefore

having the spell do something different.

For instance, I I think one time there's
cantrip of Frost, And instead I I cast of

Frose, uh, and just blasted my opponent
with an icy stream of of frozen rose.

Um, just, I love, I love a
shenanigan, uh, if that's not

completely apparent, so I loved the,
the chaos of me just rearranging

Matt: letters.

Yeah, That was, that was particularly fun.

Now we should give credit to
the Adventure Zone gentlemen.

That, uh, you know, came up
with that idea, but it was,

it was really, really fun.

I like that one too.

Maybe it

Alison: That was a favorite.

What about you?

Matt: Ah, let's see.

Yeah, I guess, I guess we're very lucky
because we had Jeff as a, as a DM back

in the day and, and he really loved the
Adventure Zone and, and ran us through

this so there were just too many great
things but I remember there was a, I want

to say it was like a little ornery doll.

Alison: The gnome that
would spring to life Yes.

and unlock doors and also tell what we did
wrong in the the most recent encounter.

Matt: He could, he could, he could
cast the Knock spell, would open

most doors, but while he was doing
it, yes, he had to, he had to tell us

everything that we were doing wrong.

That was

Alison: Which I I think
was just Jeff's device.

Matt: Maybe it was.

Alison: To beat up on us.

Matt: on Well, yes, that's, I mean, it
was chosen for that reason, for sure.

Yeah.

Anyway, it was really fun, and
I remember I just, Jeff's really

good at that kind of wacky stuff.

He's really good at that stuff.

I I do, I I, as a as a game master
myself, I do not have that level

of like wackiness on top of a

Alison: Mm

Matt: general Mm-Hmm.

thing.

I could learn a lesson or two there.

Mm

Alison: It's interesting because
I was actually just thinking last

night, I I remember when we Tey on
in season one as a guest and Tey

dropped that juicy bit of knowledge
of it's a GM's job to just be the like

we process what the party gives us.

Um, and he had had used it, uh, we were
talking at that time about my familiar,

and in a, that was a party in where
a lot of people had familiars or some

of sidekick, and I I just never really
used mine, and, and, and Tey, like, in

the, it was not a call very polite,
but it it was important to know that,

like, as a GM, and I think, I think
when he told us this, I hadn't GM'd

that much, so I didn't appreciate it
as much, as now that that I have GMed,

like, you, have so many things going on.

And especially of us us who are neuro
spicy, like, how can you manage all that?

Matt, how can you you be expected to
manage the wacky magic items and just

everything in game that we throw your
way, and the story, and like, and the

lore, and those of you who who can do
it, man, teach us how, but no shame and.

the the learning

Matt: Yeah, I think, I think, um, I think
the answer is just to do it over and

over and over and over until it's easier.

Alison: Mm hmm.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Mm hmm.

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

like riding a bike and chewing gum and
doing your taxes all at the same time.

Alison: So,

Matt: Not that you would
want to do any of those

Alison: About to say two
of of those three things.

Uh, I know for a fact you hate, so.

Lemme come up

Matt: with some better It's like riding
a bike, which is kind of fun, and

Alison: Eating a a popsicle.

Matt: a popsicle, especially like
the chocolate ones, like those

weird gooey chocolatey ones.

Alison: Fruity, man!

Matt: Yeah, not for me, I haven't had
one in decades, but that weird, gummy,

chalky, chocolate ones on a hot day.

And,

Alison: Calling your mom?

Matt: Calling your mom.

There that's third and calling
your mom the same time.

Perfect.

Alison: Yeah, it is.

lot.

Maybe this, that be year's journey.

You we don't do resolutions, but

Matt: We don't do resolutions.

Alison: But we, we choose words that
are meaningful to us, and we we set

intentions on this here podcast.

So maybe, That can be be an intention
that you both you and I set as

Game Masters, is more attention to
synthesizing our players' experiences

through everything that they show us
and even more imagination on our parts.

Matt: Yes, I love it.

I really do.

I love it a lot.

And, you know, that's a good segue, I
believe, into our topic today because

the strange thing about this year is
unlike last year, where we came in,

and I came in, and I said, I want this
and this and this to be my theme, I

want, I want more community, I want
more playing games, I want this,

and I want to, you know, know, yeah.

and and all of those things just
click, click, clicked last year.

And so all I wanted the beginning
of this year is the same, but more.

I just want more of the more, right,
because I, I was gifted so kindly

last year of all of those things.

And so yeah, it is how,
how frustrating it is.

So the way that I likened it, uh,
personally, and I'd love, love

to hear your take on how you, you
comparatively try to, you know,

shoehorn it into the concept of a TTRPG.

Is that you're a spellcaster,
particularly, uh, in 5e rules.

I guess it would be a cleric and a druid
because you, you can, at every long rest,

you can change up your spells, right?

The idea of needing to prepare
your spells for a given day,

week, jaunt, encounter, etc.

Alison: hmm.

Interesting.

Matt: And you think, okay, I've got
this and this and this and this.

I'm all ready to go.

I've got like all the fire spells
because we're in a tundra, right?

We're in a tundra and we're going
cave diving in, in a snowy cave.

I'm gonna load up on all
the fire spells I've got.

I know what I'm doing, right?

I've got this.

In the bag, get into the cave, keep
going down, down, down, well, it gets

warmer and warmer because the cave
is extremely long and it's just, it

just goes down and down and down.

Warmer, warmer, you know, you're
getting all hot and bothered and you

run into like a full on pit demon from
hell who is immune to every single

one of your fire of your fire spells.

Alison: Mm

Matt: Like, fire damage does not, is zero.

Alison: Mm

Matt: Full immunity to fire damage,
and you just kind of feel what

Yep.

It's just like what?

What?

And

Alison: What?

Matt: This is a problem that I have
sometimes with 5e, but that feeling that

you get when you fail in a constitution
save or an intelligence save or you

fail an insight check or a survival
check and it doesn't even matter that

you have this incredible uh, sword that
dances and sings show tunes and, you

Alison: My kind of sword!

Matt: Yes, luck be a lady tonight!

Tra la la la la be a la you know, uh,
it doesn't matter that you have these

things, you still kind of feel I feel
like that's where we are right now,

does that does that sum it up or, or,

Alison: I love that.

It, so, I mean, I, I see no reason to try
and improve upon what was already just a

really great always mix is it a simile,
an analogy, a metaphor, you you know?

Um metaphor, Metaphor.

No,

Matt: Analogy.

Analogy.

Let's go

Alison: it was an I think I like analogy.

Um, you know, know, and you nailed it as
far as like the daily choice of spells and

like, this is this is what we're packing.

The only only other thing I can
and this is interesting because

you're thinking coming up with
an analogy as a Campaign DM.

Matt: Hmm.

Yeah,

Alison: So I will come come up with
an analogy for you as a one shot DM,

where everything is a little bit more
like siloed into individual quests,

you know, versus the long haul.

It kind of is like when you have a
martial player, also interesting that

I'm choosing martial for for something
and not caster for something...ooo, weird

Matt: Mm-Hmm.

Alison: Weird.

Um, when you have a martial player who
has clearly, like, like, spent their

background, their story becoming the the
best at what they they have practiced,

they have strength, they have precision,
they have dexterity and constitution

and all these things, and they come
they come up a big bad against whom non

non magical weapons simply do not work.

Matt: Yeah.

What we're talking, we just need some
magic, what we're talking about for, for.

For those of you listening that the last
five minutes made zero sense to you,

we're just talking about spinning wheels.

We're just talking about, like,
having all the tools right there.

are Literally every tool that
you could, that you could

possibly need to be prepared.

You know what you're thinking about.

You, you're excited.

You, you're excited about
the work that you're doing.

It's not like, it's not like
you don't want to do it.

You.

In fact, I want to do it more than
I've ever wanted to do most things,

and yet I'm still like, like,
I just can't latch on and rock.

I just can't.

And I've had plenty of
times last year where I was.

I was.

Latching on and rocking.

Alison: Uh huh.

Matt: That is such a weird why
am I keep saying latching on

and

Alison: And

Matt: rocking.

And rocking.

Those don't well together.

together.

Latching on to what??

Anyway, uh, plugging in and rocking?

How about that one?

Plugging in and rocking.

Alison: Yeah.

I can't can't even get my amp in the door.

least you're at the phase where you're
where you're trying to plug it in.

Matt: I am, so hard and I just
I just can't I'm I am surviving.

That's all I'm doing I'm not
like flourishing and and and

I'm I'm getting tired of it.

Now look, we can blame
the Midwestern winter

Alison: Oh, sure.

I can't.

Matt: I mean you I can do that
you you can blame bad news

that you've gotten recently.

You can, there's lots of things
can throw you off your game.

And of course where this is gonna be
one of those podcasts where we will not

have an answer, but it also is a podcast
for those of you who don't have ADHD

because this is certainly not a trait
that is specific to our brains, brains,

but we just wanted to talk about it.

So what do we, what do we do?

How do we get our groove back?

How do we plug in and rock?

Alison: well, Well, that's part, Matt.

Matt, I I, I almost wonder if there way
for us right here on today's episode

to kind kind of show like, what are
are the beginnings of our process

is and how we're, because that's
what people are always for, right?

People always want to know, to know,
like, but how, are you doing that?

Like, but what what are you using?

What are the specific, you know,
you, we've talked a lot lot about

Matt: PKM!

Alison: Personal Knowledge Managers.

And, you know, right right now we
are in the process as a business,

Bivins Brothers Creative, and
also as creative organization, The

Pocket Dimension, switching over
to a new to some some of us PKM.

And it's important work that we're
doing building these Notion databases to

house both both like our task management
side and kind of of like the bird's eye

view of everything we've got going on.

But right now now while it's
getting built, that's lending

to us feeling bit lost.

Matt: It is also lending, it
is also lending to, to that.

So, let me start it, let me
start this section of the

conversation by a word of warning.

Uh, try not to futz with
your, with your system.

Try not to do that.

I will say that, one thing I wanted
to do at the beginning of the year,

ironically, And as I say this out loud,
I realize how truly foolish it sounds.

I really wanted to simplify, actually.

I wanted to, I wanted to really
simplify because I was very

much aware that I was futzing.

Last year in 2023, I fell in love with
this, this, this, this, PKM, this,

Alison: It's so absurd to say it.

say it.

I am.

Matt: I'm

Alison: Mm I'm a PKM.

Matt: This, this, uh, this app, this
really, really well designed app called

Tana, uh, after, you know, skirting
around all of these things to try to

organize, I'm not going to be able
to, I'm not gonna be able to do that.

I will not, I will not
permanently choose a tool that

will ever completely satisfy me.

It will not turn off the oo shiny.

It will not.

not, It's impossible, so I'm, I
am, I am okay with that, but what

I do love and what I do feel like I
work really hard on is the system.

The system that, that allows me to
think about organization and hierarchy

and, and, and of course I, I kind of
use TTRPG terms to help me get there

and inspire me to work in it, right?

Alison: Well, let me let me let me
take a little bit of the pressure off

a couple of of years ago, and we've
talked about this on the podcast before.

As a group, we decided that we that we
uh, like a project management to house

all of our client data and, and give me
as kind of the group project manager,

again, it's like bird's bird's eye look,
but then be able to kind of like dive

deeper where I needed to, um, into task
management beyond project management.

We looked at Notion.

We may have even looked at Obsidian.

We We looked at a bunch
of different, um, options.

And we did trial runs of Asana and of
Monday and several others that are,

you know, like base campy type type
of, you corporate project management.

Um, and at the time we decided
collectively as a group that

like, let's not try and build it.

Let's find something that's the
closest match to what we think need.

And I'm not I'm not saying it was bad.

It got the job done at the time.

It helped us grow in certain certain ways.

So I'm not here to poo
poo that we that we made.

But I think there was always this like
question in the back of our minds of like,

but is it is it exactly what we need.

Like, if we we built it,
could we build it better.

Because you know you know
what you need more than that.

So we are now are now kind of
having to go back go back and do

of bit of undoing and extra rework.

Because we didn't listen that litte
voice, and we said, No, no, no, let's

find like the closest approximation,
rather than exactly what we want.

And so now we're like, kind of at the
end of last of last year, I kind of

feel like we hit the walls and ceiling
ceiling and, floor and everything

else of what our selected platform
was able to allow to allow us to do.

And that's And that's when we all
just kind of collectively said, let's

just just move to Notion already.

Matt: And it's, and it's a
great, it is a great, great tool.

Everybody's heard of it now.

I do like Notion.

I could do a lot of what I'm
already doing myself in Notion.

I can move that over, which
actually will be so great.

I can, I won't have to try to balance
things in my own set of tools.

And I mean personal projects like
like sell an old computer, that's

the project, uh, but of course there
are more tasks in there, right?

Like with ADHD you have to learn
that it's, the task is not sell

my computer, that's not a task,

Alison: Take pictures
of my of my computer.

Price

Matt: Take the

Alison: about, about it.

Reply to comments.

Settle on a, on a, on
time to pick up or ship.

Yeah

Matt: mhm,

Alison: Well, I mean, that's a perfect,
example of where my head has been with

with ADHd20 so year is that I love ADHd20.

I I love having this podcast every
every time we want to try and like

get into we realize that it's not
enough right now now to record an

ADHd20 episode because we haven't.

We're still in the process of making
the calendar and defining the subtasks

and for every episode that we put out.

And Matt and I, by the way, by the way,
we're not asking for sympathy here . Like

Matt: no, no,

Alison: this is something that we love,

Matt: Oh, it's, it's,
uh, it's our own torture.

Alison: yeah, but yeah, we, we
have made the torturous things

torturous, and nobody else.

So I'm I'm curious, if we can just
can just like, Pull down the the

curtain for a and actually show
ADHd20 listeners a little bit about

the Notion databse, specific to
how to how we've TTRPG ified it.

Matt: I would, I would love that.

And, and I will, I will also say
that, In my own brain, because we

love TTRPGs, that is where I put this,
this hierarchy system in my brain.

It makes, it actually makes more sense
to me than some of the tried and true,

very popular productivity methods,
like the PARA method by Tiago Forte.

PARA, stands for Projects,
Areas, Resources, Archive.

And, and, and the idea, this is the part
I took from him that I love so much, is

that if you can just remember P A R A,
and you have those folders, then they

can be in Notion, on your computer, In
your email, la de de, da da da da da.

So you're not guessing where
things go so much, right?

The pro the I started to have problems
though, conceptually, with the differences

between projects and areas and resources.

And I'm not asking for
someone to explain it to me.

I do actually get his system.

I've I've bought his books.

I love his books.

I love his I love him.

He's great.

He seems like a super Just, just great
guy and, uh, I understand the concept

but it just doesn't quite work for
me and then there's other ones like

Getting Things Done by David Allen,
who has been around for, jeez, 20?

20?

More.

20?

No.

They're probably going
on 25, 30 years now.

He is, he is seen as sort of a, a true
godfather of productivity and, and his,

his thing is great for ADHD in that,

it will not stay in your brain.

Do not use your brain as, do not, do not
expect your brain to remember things.

Take it out.

Take the idea out.

Put it into Inbox or Inboxes and use that.

Uh, but I, I just, I'm just a hacker, I
just can't, for whatever reason, it just

doesn't quite click for me until I do it
myself, so, I started last year putting

together this system related to RPG terms,
and this is the way it applies to us.

What I'm trying to do is is filter
all of the things so that I can turn

quote unquote turn on and off sections
of all the things that we have to do

so that I'm not I don't get up in the
morning look at Notion or any other

project task management and go and
just close it and go play video games.

That's what I'm trying to do.

So I start off with realms.

Uh, you and I are involved
with three distinct realms.

One of them is Bivins Brothers
Creative, which is our

digital design marketing firm.

Uh, so that is one realm.

And then another realm, of
course, is The Pocket Dimension,

which includes this podcast.

And then a third one for me is
called CaptionPoint, where I,

caption live theater performances
for the deaf and hard of hearing.

So

So a project for Bivins Brothers is
not the same thing as a project for

the Pocket Dimension, It's not the
same thing as a captioning project,

uh, with a theater CaptionPoint.

They just don't, And I think for
so long I was trying to put them

all together and I couldn't do it.

I just couldn't do it.

Yeah.

So I have a, we have a second level
that I'm calling the campaign.

So if you're in a realm, then the second
level down is called the campaign.

And that was helpful to me because
another really tricky thing is the

difference between, ongoing projects
and one off projects or, you know,

campaigns and one shots, right?

Like, I still don't know of a
system that That really sets those

boundaries for me personally.

I haven't seen, I haven't read about it.

and it's problematic to me because,
because ADHd20 is a project, like

you said, you just said, we have
all these things we have to do.

Not only the things that you mentioned
per episode, we also have just

admin things, Becoming a business,

Alison: Tax forms!

Matt: Tax forms!

All of it.

Alison: Chewing bubblegum,
and riding a bicycle

Matt: And

calling your

mom.

Alison: and your mom

Matt: It's not just a one and done, so
it does not fit in the just projects.

It doesn't really fit in areas either,
because areas are more like realms in

Tiago's way

You know, again, you can,
you can make it work.

The way that you need, and that's
what I'm trying to do here.

So we've got our session today is going
to going to in the campaign of right.

And then a layer down
from that is the quest.

Quests absolutely have ends.

They have a beginning, and have they

Alison: We are on a quest right now

Matt: We're on a quest right this

Alison: This episode is a quest

Matt: Yes, we are in

Alison: You're part of our quest,
as you're watching and listening to

Matt: Exactly!!

Season 3, Episode 2 is the quest, uh, in
the campaign of ADHd20, and, It will have

an end, because we're recording now, and
there's editing, and then there's all

these other things that you mentioned.

And each one of those things, this
recording currently, is then the action.

action that we're, it's a task, right?

The task is record this episode.

Yep.

Uh,

So, I broke it down into that.

We call them actions just because it's a
5e thing, but, you know, in a turn, you

have different actions available to you.

And because recording is not similar
to editing, is not similar to writing,

it felt like actions is good word that.

Alison: Yep.

Matt: And then the only other thing,
the only other thing that I add is

sort of like a satellite that's kind of
related to these actions are encounters.

And encounters are really just
sort of meetings and events and

other, you know, happenings.

Alison: So if we had, um, if we actually
planned our episodes ahead of time instead

of being gremlins who just are like, let's
turn the mic on and see what happens.

We, we might have an encounter
related to the quest of season three,

episode two, is what you're saying?

Matt: what That's I would say.

Yeah, yeah.

And so the best, you know, if you go
to, again, if you go to YouTube and you

look up someone like Thomas Frank Ali
Abdaal or any of the the geniuses that,

that spend a lot of time in Notion, uh,
they're going to be able to sell you these

beautiful templates they have worked so
hard and it's got, it has formulas that

have this really high level math, and
it's all up to date, it really works well.

But again, templates don't for me
because they're, they're always

just a little bit too opinionated.

we're finally getting to sort of the
crux of this conversation, which is

where I am right now with that building.

I know what the system because I've
been using this system personally for

most of last year, so I think that it's
going to be great for all us, because

all of us understand TTRPGs, all of
all of us can, you know, conceptualize

these, these thoughts and ideas, uh,
so it, I think that it will all make

sense, but it is the building, it is
the putting together, I'm down to the,

like, the, the, the adding of, of mortar?

the Between Is that what you say?

Why do I always Why do I always choose of

Alison: You know so much about
so many things and you're like,

lemme talk about engineering.

Let me talk about sports.

You do, you do have a knack for
picking, damnit, picking the things

that you're not Yeah, let's put in,
put in like performance or music terms,

you know, like we've, we've had the
rehearsals, we've done the blocking,

Matt: Like we've got, blocking.

So now we're

Alison: It's time to get off book Matt.

Matt: We have to get off
We have to get off book.

We have to not only get off book, but we,
you know, we need to memorize, memorize

our lines so that can start to really,
like, internalize the character and

really, move like the character would.

Alison: Wow.

Taking me back, man.

Taking me back.

Matt: And it is, it is a lot of work, and
I, I want to be spending all time doing

it, and, but like you said, it is so much
like, it creates chaos instead of helps,

because it's like when you move into a
new house, or you need to redecorate your

entire living room for whatever reason
that you want to, and it's trashed for so

Alison: Yeah, we're not dopamining
in our, in our Notion just yet.

It is, it is instilling a level of
panic and fear versus a dopamine boost.

I mean, not to not to catastrophize
my feelings or anything.

I would never ever do that.

But that's so and that was kind of
what I wanted to talk about, though,

today is that like, what is it?

What can it be that can keep
us going over that hump?

Because all I want to do is give into
the darkness at this you know, like,

Matt: This is hard for because yes, I
do like tweaking and you, you are, I

know that you're getting frustrated,
which you should be, and honestly,

I just, I just have to make it work.

We have been pairing, which is a
really good thing, we've been, you and

I've been, even if you have no input
whatsoever, you just simply being on the

other side of a screen or, or a, or a
Slack huddle is, It's, it's everything

that I need, because sometimes, you
know, again, here it is, here's the

crux, it's like, that needs to happen.

Alison: This is, this is the,
like, I've referred to this time

as the messy middle before, right?

It's, it's that just.

Everything is just, I love the
analogy of the, the, the house you're

moving into where you're just, you're
convinced you're never going to be at

home and settled again at some point.

And then, and usually like, it's always
darkest before the dawn though, right?

Like it, it's in that moment of
hopelessness that, that things

then do start to come together.

I am convinced always.

And, and it's like that
with creating anything.

But this part is also
the unsexiest of them.

And you and I are fueled by, like,
when things are working and things are

hopping and we're like, we're great.

Like, you, you can't stop us.

But keeping us motivated
through the unsexy times where

it's like, this is boring.

This is arduous.

This is grueling.

Like, this is, you know, like all of
these just, and that's what it is.

Like, as much as we love all of this,

These little menial things like,
stacking on top of each other and

seemingly not making any sense.

And it's like, okay, so to take
things back into the theater analogy,

you know, we have to get off book.

Matt: get off book

Alison: The last thing that I
want to do, bring my friends down

with I don't want you to see this
before it's ready for you to see.

However, the most helpful thing would
be to have somebody to run lines with.

Cause that's how you get
into the patter of it.

And all of us as actors have done this.

We're like, no, I can do this on my own.

I mean, I, I used to spend hours like
recording myself and, you know, like

if I say it enough, but it's never,
and it's one of those things like the

efficiency of, I could spend six hours
reading, re reading, saying, re saying,

recording, or I could probably spend like
an hour with a friend just running lines.

Like as speedily as possible, and that's
going to be the more, but I don't want

to, I don't want to ask for that help.

I don't, I don't, I don't want to show
this to somebody before it's ready.

Um, so how do we, and so that's, I think
that's important for friends who listen

to this episode as ways to help us or
other NeuroSpicy types in their life.

We're not going to ask for the help.

The end.

Like, we can cut the episode off here.

So like, what are, what are the telltale
signs that we're spinning and we're in

the messy middle and that we're like,
feeling some kind of way about this and

not wanting to like, let anybody in?

And let anybody like see our
panic or our just, you know,

I think

I think, well, like I think about, you
know, like, I don't know if I have any

signs, but it makes, I was thinking
the other day about social media.

Mm and there was something
that like I needed to post.

But I didn't want to put I didn't
want to go through that because

my house is a wreck right now.

Shouldn't surprise my house
is always a wreck, but it's

like especially bad right now.

And I just have not had the time
nor desire to do anything about it.

So it's like, I can't I can't do this
because this is and then I was like, I

had this thought of like, Why do, what if
more people just showed their messy house?

Like, why as a society have we
decided that you're only worthy

of being in a, you know, reel on
Instagram if it looks pristine?

And, you know, I'm not somebody,
there are people who get a

lot of joy from minimalism.

And that's, I just, I don't care.

I just don't care.

And people telling me I should
care is what like causes the brain,

Matt: Yeah,

Alison: rather than me actually caring.

Um, yeah.

So I don't know, like,
what are my telltale signs?

Well, I share less.

I snap inward more.

So if you're, if you're not hearing
from me or not seeing me, that could

be a sign that I've, Homer Simpsoned
into the bushes because I don't

want anybody to see me struggle.

Um,

Matt: yeah,

Alison: I'm just back there
eating doughnuts, you know?

Um.

Matt: And that's, and that's
another sign, isn't it?

Like eating donuts when you know
you shouldn't be eating doughnuts.

Like, I take care, I take care of
myself less, uh, I I definitely

am like, yeah, whatever.

I, I do play video games
when I, shouldn't, you know?

like I, um, I make bad decisions.

Alison: Yeah.

Matt: that's a sign, cause I'm
trying to avoid, trying to escape.

Mm hmm.

Alison: What else?

What else?

We're outing ourselves here.

We're telling it, we're giving everybody
the power to be like, ah, you're in the

messy middle and you're floundering.

And that's, I mean, that, that, that is
truly, when we get to this part, we are.

Floundering.

And that's for me, that's
the weird balance of my

particular brand of ADHD, right?

Is there's the side of me that
does get really overstimulated.

And the best way for me to
get out of that is to detach.

Matt: mmhmm,

Alison: Is to like, that can be healthy
for me to, but there does have to be

some point where I then like, reemerge.

Matt: yeah,

Alison: And that's the problem,
is I detach, I go away, and then

I get too comfortable back there.

I don't know, I didn't realize I
did this until we started having

this conversation, this is all news

Matt: no,

Alison: to me

Matt: That's really good.

So, so my, I did, I did call up
Brittany I can call her Brittany

now, cause she's like one of us.

Alison: Y'all have met we've met her.

Matt: um, and, she said, one of
the biggest problems is that you

don't, you're, we're not trusting
our gut Her I could go to the

whiteboard in the next room.

I could write down everything
I have do, I could do it.

It's in, it's in my head.

I, I It's there.

I'm now not trusting enough.

I'm not trusting myself, trusting
my gut to say, these are the things

know be getting done, these are
the things that should be getting

Instead, I'm working on
other things that shouldn't.

Instead, I'm, I just don't,
I'm not trusting myself.

I'm not trusting my gut feeling, no,
no, you are right, you are right, just,

just fight through it, keep going.

If the tool itself is driving you
away from it, then take a disposable

piece of paper and disposable
pen and put down write it down.

what you have to get done until
you get to the point where you

trust yourself and you say, okay.

That's, that is the truth.

That's the truth right now.

Maybe not next week, maybe not in a month,
right this minute, has and just do it.

Uh,

because the messy middle is so confusing
for ADHD brains, because so many

times, as we've said, it is absolutely
filled with stuff we want to do.

Uh, I would, I would love to be able to
charge, I'm I'm just announcing this right

now, I would love very much to be able
to charge my hourly fee to set people

up with a customized Notion environment,
Airtable environment, uh, Obsidian

environment, I mean, Tana environment, you
name it, that would be a dream job to me.

I, I really love that work,
I love the idea, but I'm in

the middle of my own mess, and

it's

hard.

Alison: Well, that's the absurd
part here, Matt, is that it, and

you could for literally anybody.

But yourself, like, I was having a
very intuitive led conversation with

my best friend a couple of days ago.

She is in the process of Uh, just,
she's got a lot of work stuff going on.

I'll leave it there, right?

And there were some, like, definite,
like, pings that I was getting.

And I, like, she and I have the type of
relationship where I could just, like,

be totally honest with her and tell it to
her whether she wants to hear it or not.

To which her usual response is, I
hate you, she says with a smile.

Like, because she knows
I'm right in that moment.

She knows that I'm like, and she's
like, how are you doing this?

I'm like, let me be very clear.

I could not do this for myself.

We can't do these things for ourselves.

You could only like, because you
have to have that perspective.

So yes, I am fully convinced that
tomorrow you could meet with anybody

listening to this podcast, take
down their requirements, exactly

what they need, exactly what they've
hated about every PKM before, exactly

the way that they want to use it.

You could probably even talk to them about
that which interests the hell out of them.

Like you love to and are good at doing.

And you could build them this completely
custom database with little gentle

nods to things that make them tick,
if not TTRPGs, you could probably

have it done by the end of this

week.

Matt: week I probably could, I
probably could, probably could,

Alison: I that That's been my overwhelming
thought about myself all year long is

like, I could do this for anybody else.

Why?

Why can I not just do it for myself?

Maybe that's the lesson.

Maybe that's the lesson, is there, at
some point in all of our lives, there

do just be things we be outsourcin'.

Matt: Yeah.

Oh, yes,

Alison: I don't cut my own
hair or color my own hair.

That's true.

I go to somebody else and have them do it.

That's

true.

Could I put purple in my own hair?

Probably.

Would it look like it
does what Emily does?

Absolutely not.

You know, like, because I'm not
a professional at that thing.

But like, I think, I think that's
the, that's the, that is the hacky

downside of our brains of like, we
think we can fix and do a lot more

Matt: Mm hmm.

Alison: than maybe we can or should.

Oh, no.

Matt: Oh, no.

What are we going to do now?

Alison: What?

Here's what we need.

Okay.

Okay, here's what we need.

We need a NeuroSpice Exchange Program,

Matt: Mm hmm.

Okay.

Alison: Where like, we just kind of
figure out like, who's like, just

like borrowing and sharing, you know,

I'm really good at helping other people
do things like write cover letters,

write newsletters, like anything that
they need to be able to like brag about

something, but in a non totally gross way.

I'm your girl.

I will write that for
you all day, every day.

My friends know that I'm good at
writing when it comes to anything

with a slight marketing or selling
bend, and they have me do that.

I don't want to touch a PivotTable.

I don't want to touch a
budget, so I go to them.

When I need something done in Excel
or Sheets or, like, Numbers Based,

why don't we just do more of that?

Matt: I mean, a lot of this
comes down to money, right?

A lot of this comes down to
cost because I, it's a one two

punch of well, I to do this

and if

and if I do it, then it it is,
it does not cost any money.

I don't mind paying
people what they're worth.

that's not a problem,

but Maybe we have that money, maybe
we have that money, And, if I have

the ability to do it, that is,
you know, that just seems silly.

But, that is a dangerous
place to be sometimes.

I like what you're suggesting,
because if it was a barter system

of,

I don't know, What would you,
you, you have a coupon book,

This notion setup will
guarantee you, uh, I know.

Alison: Well, let, let's, let's make
this more universally applicable

and we can, we can go offline and
talk specifically about how, like,

we're going to put this into play.

But I would say for those listening to
this right now who have hit the messy

middle, who have realized that things
aren't moving forward in the direction

that they want to, or they're watching
one of their loved ones spin out the

way that we have confessed to doing.

Think through the people in your
life and joys, because I have

friends who love organizing stuff.

I bet I could call any one of
these friends who love organizing

and say, this is my closet room.

And then I bet there is something
in their life that they have been

putting off that I could be like, can
I run these errands for you because

I love driving around in my car.

Or can I, you know, like, can I, you know,
put together a list of books for you?

I'm thinking about, my friends,
specifically have, like, a spreadsheet

of books that we all own so we know
who to go to to borrow books from.

Um, right.

So, like, just things like that, like, in
your own life, think through, you know,

whether you have a partner, like the
things you're good at that your partner's

not, and where you guys can be on kind
of an exchange program and then like zoom

out that circle a little bit and think
about like your first layer of friends.

And again, like if we all just start
being more honest with ourselves of like,

I'm good at this, but I don't enjoy it.

Or I'm good at this, but I don't currently
have the capacity to think about it.

Or I'm good at this in other
people's lives, but I just can't

seem to make it happen for myself.

Could I get your help with it?

Yes.

Um, being open to that possibility
of the exchange of energy could be a

cool level up for all of us this year.

Matt: I know.

really could.

Alison: DeDee dilly dee dill

Matt: In a later episode.

Alison: Yeah, we can't fix everything

in an hour of our time.

I

Matt: everybody that we weren't
going to fix it this time.

That's okay, sometimes it

happens.

But it does help to
talk about it, I think.

It definitely helps to talk about it.

And it helps to make it
aware, and it helps to like,

Alison: That actually, I'm going to
toot both of our own horns for a second.

That is something I am proud of both
of us for, for this, because you and

I were both like, you know, like,
it makes me slightly uncomfortable.

And we've got these things going
like, so let's just, and, and, and

I did that to you, you asked me, you
were like, we're gonna record today.

And I was like, I don't want
to because I don't know.

And then I was like,
no, let's talk about it.

Matt: Yeah,

man.

Alison: And that is growth
right there that we were like,

we're not where we want to be.

We're struggling.

Yeah.

But I didn't snap myself
up and detach fully.

No.

I trusted my buddy, Matthew.

Matt: it did it You did and I trusted

Alison: of our ADHd20 friends.

Matt: Yes.

Thank you friends.

Alison: We knew y'all

could

Matt: knew.

We knew.

that you were going to be there for even
though you're not there for us until

you're listening to this Which is energy.

Alison: See, but that's the thing.

Now let's get into WooWoo for a second.

Let's have Alison's WooWoo Corner be a
part of every, be a part of every episode.

Yes.

Yes, that is something.

Yeah, we need to, we need to get like, uh,
segue music, and, uh an intro this season.

But for Alison's WooWoo Corner,
Matthew, time is a weird soup.

It's not happening in a linear way, the
way that our human brains have taught us.

So there was already an exchange of
energy of our listeners helping us.

Long before we sat down to record,
so they already have helped us,

even though this episode has not
been edited and produced yet.

How you like them apples?

Matt: I love love apples.

Alison: And I love woo.

woo.

Matt: Yeah!

too!

Me too!

Woo woo!

Alison: just need more, um, opportunities
to say my favorite phrase, "Time is a

Matt: weird soup hmm.

Alison: Uh, in any given
day, so thank you for

Matt: Anytime.

It

Alison: It feels good.

That might be my next tattoo.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Time is a weird soup.

Thank you, Ashley Johnson.

Matt: you, Ashley Johnson.

your heart.

That's wonderful.

Alright, Well, let's call it and
let's get back to work, Alison.

Let's do some stuff!

Alison: Okay.

Matt: ADHD20 is a creation from
the Pocket Dimension, a multiverse

where we explore neurospice,

Alison: rolling dice,

Matt: and so much more.

Come chat with us in our
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The join link is in our show notes.

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Check out

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Alison: We love that you're here.

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