Marker, Marker, Marker in
the Dark, Marker in the Dark,

Bow, Chicka, Wow, Wow,
Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow, Wow,

Hi, Alison.

I'm at

Welcome to Episode 4.

three.

Oh,

Welcome to Episode 3, Season 3, of
ADHD20, which is a podcast that finds

the correlation, the connection,
the intersection of ADHD and.

TTRPGs.

right, that's right, that's what it does.

Why are we in each other's brains today?

Goodness!

It's fun.

I know, I know,

I

You're like a little

tadpole swimming around in here.

Sorry, you guys.

I'm obsessed with Baldur's Gate 3 right

now and I just realized that we're
connected by the same illithid

and that illithid is ADHD.

Transformation to full nerd complete!

Starting out strong.

Holy crap.

That wasn't in the notes.

I have not even thought about that,
but yes, for those of you who love

BG3, Uh, would, I would easily say that
ADHD could be a tadpole in your brain.

That,

um,

And it's like, we have guides
encouraging us to like, use it, right?

To like, lean into it instead of fight it,

which is like, the whole part
of Act One of BG3 is your little

guide whispering in your dreams.

Use, use the connection.

Use the power it gives you.

He's pretty handsome
too, the mysterious dream

warrior.

Oh, I have, I have a lady.

You get to, you get to,
choose your own guide at the

beginning.

That's what

it was!

That's what it was!

Well, to be fair, I've started
this game over about three times.

I was telling Alison that, um, I just, all
of January was like, was treading water

so hard, I just, I came out of the gate
strong, uh, last year, hit January, just

felt super disorganized, all, nothing
worked, all the, all the, everything, all

the systems just crashing on top of each
other, uh, and then, I, very proudly

and dutifully, uh, had a colonoscopy,
uh, screening, colonoscopy, a screening,

uh, which happened last week, and at
that time, uh, my coach from episode

one went off to have a baby, and my wife
went off to dog sit, so I've just been

unhinged.

So,

You're, you're

uh,

You're treading

water in like, viscous
gel instead of water now.

It's 87 times harder

to, to fight.

I get it.

it really is.

Another thing about
BG3, to that very point.

Mm hmm.

to that point, I do love Okay, as a
Dungeon Master, I have learned already a

shit ton of stuff about DMing from BG3.

One of

Interesting.

being the amount of
difficult terrain that these

Yes.

Yes.

Implement that, because it's
really difficult, and it should be.

It,

in my DMing world, everything is
just perfect, slick, easy movin jams.

But what?

And let me, yes and that.

I, it took me so long.

I am a brand new video gamer.

This is my first gaming
system since my Atari.

Um, so I, I, I came in not knowing it and
I literally had to watch YouTube videos

of like how, how do I hold the control?

Like, what do these buttons do?

Because I was so lost for the first,
like, Several hours I was trying to play.

It took me so long to even figure
out how to build a character just

because I didn't know what to hit,
even though it's right there on the

screen, if you know how to read it.

That's the thing.

Like, the key is there if you know
what to do with it, but I couldn't,

I needed a key for the keys.

Anywho, I digress.

is not

It's not easy.

it is not an easy game It is not an easy
first game to jump into it is really not

That is the Alison way right there.

Like, why would I wade in when I can
just make myself drown out the gate?

Yeah, mm hmm, yeah,

Um, but I noticed that, like, when
we would go through these rough

terrains, I would, we would come out
of them, and my character, I'm actually

playing Chimerical, who you guys have
heard me talk about on this podcast.

She would come out damaged.

She'd come out like 20 hit points down
and the rest of the party would, and

I'm like, what, they're all jumping.

That's why it's like, that is, that's
ADHD right there too, is like, I'm

making things harder on myself.

I could just jump over the fire.

I could just like do a
perception check and see.

See the vines that are going to
entangle me, and instead I am just the

impulse gremlin like running through
life and just taking the damage.

Oh man, we did, this is
not on the outline, Matt.

We have something else totally
to talk about today, but we're

gonna have to like circle back and

do like a full This is a
this is your appetizer.

We're sprinkling a little taste of what's
to come as we all get deeper and deeper

into this game that I'm loving so much.

And it's just, hours are being
devoured by it and I don't care.

I don't give a hoot or a toot.

You feel me?

It's good.

It is good.

It is good.

But what are we, uh, what
are we talking about today?

Mm.

We're actually bringing you guys
a little tale once again from our

home game, from our Curse of Strahd
game, that we experienced in game

Yes.

really just yesterday.

All the days are running together because
Matt and I just were talking about last

week what we could talk about for this
episode, circling everything back, back

to you and Under Anesthesia last week,
and it just, it zapped you, and we

wondered, like, is that Is that normal
or is, does having a neurodivergent

brain react differently to, you know?

Right, and and I will I will I will
immediately say we don't know the answer

to that But we're gonna talk about it.

Anyway, like we

Mm-Hmm?

We've done no research.

We don't know whether That's a thing,
but I do know that generally the feeling

of being stunned of being incapacitated
Has to go hand in hand with the fact

that With all of the other topics that
we have broached, like RSD, and over

explanation, and hyper focus, and, or,
you know, or lack of any of those things.

So, that's what we're going to talk about

catastropic.

trying to remember.

But, before we do that, of course.

It's time.

It's time to roll some beautiful.

You are, you're rolling.

What, what dice are you
rolling with, Mattie?

Um.

I see.

I told you I'd make a
dice gremlin of you yet

Oh god, you have no idea.

Now it's, it's out of control, actually.

Uh, I have, I have two sets.

I have my office set, and
then I have my home set.

so that sounds incredibly
in control to me.

just.

hehehehe, yeah, yeah,

That sounds so the opposite
of impulsive or gremlin like.

Do better.

Do

more.

For Fur serious.

Ah,

and they're pretty okay.

And a one and two and a one, two… 68.

so close.

I know.

So close to being nice.

If you had a familiar in real life,
what would be its primary form?

Oh,

I

know.

I've had a familiar, okay.

Is that, so that's a little tricky
because, you know, I, I am a dog person.

I love dogs.

I don't dislike any animals.

But a familiar is such a specific.

It's a soul connection.

And Familiars, for those
of you not familiar.

Uh, gross, Alison, it's a spell.

So when you are bonded with a familiar,
it's a being that exists on the ethereal

plane that you can call into the material
plane that you do have this bond with.

They have kind of a base what
they are, but as part of the

spell, you can change its form.

So if we're going on a sea adventure,
I could make my familiar an octopus.

And they can be of aid, they can
take turns with you in combat.

Our friend Matt, not this one, the
other one, has a familiar in our Barovia

game and does amazing things with
that fiery little bird that he has.

It's really a cool mechanic for
you to just kind of like have a

little buddy, but also kind of,
uh, you can see and hear through

their eyes and ears, which is neat.

But when you, when you're seeing and
hearing, you as a person lose access

to those senses, which I kind of love.

great.

Um,

Again, I love dogs.

I, I, I, will have a dog.

But I feel like, uh, a familiar really
needs to be a pocketable creature,

or something that has its own.

constant, uh, you know, ability for
motion without getting tired because, you

know, otherwise, Shih Tzus, Shih Tzus get

tired they,

I feel like I know what
you're going to say, so

let's see if I'm right.

You want to, you want to guess?

I was going to guess rat.

You got it!

You got it!

You got it!

Uh, yes, I think a rat
would be a perfect familiar.

Because they are smart.

are Personable?

know, I don't mean sewer rats.

I know that, I know that rats
get a very bad, bad, uh, rep, but

can do amazing, amazing things.

They will live in your pocket.

They will, they will, like,
they can learn tricks.

They can, wish I had a rat Yeah.

It's funny, you made one of my a
were rat in one of our campaigns,

and like, Yeah, I cried.

Like, I was not

Matt was so horrified as to why I was
having such an emotional reaction.

I only know, like,
pizza rat and sewer rat,

Yeah.

I love, I love it, Matt,
the rat cats meat man.

I mean, just keeps going on and on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Familiar.

How about you, Alison?

Okay, so I know that everybody's
going to guess I would pick cat,

and that was second place because I
do, I love cats, I love my cats, um,

and I think cats make for excellent
familiars for many, many reasons.

But I was, I was sharing that our
illithids were connected once again,

that I, I would want something
a little bit more pocket-sized

Yeah.

Um, you're not going to be
able to guess what mine is.

Mine came to me while you were
saying rat out of left field, but

the more I think about it, the
more perfect it becomes to me.

If you want to guess.

Mole.

No.

Hamster.

Nope.

Sloth.

Oh, that's a good one, but not, that's,
that's lost in our pocket, but they

could just like hang on your neck.

Anyways, we could spend an entire
episode talking about the best familiars.

I would pick porcupine,

Holy moly.

Because, I mean, they're,
they're smart little creatures

is what I know about them.

And I love, I feel like, I feel
like we share, like they've got

these, you know, the spines, right?

The, the, the needles,
whatever they're called.

I don't know a ton about porcupines.

But they only use those
when they're threatened.

They can't, they do have the ability
to like, lay them down and be gentle.

And I feel like that's me.

Like, I can get real prickly real quick.

But I can also like, choose

You can lay, lay down.

when I can want to lay
down my defense mechanisms.

And they're just, they're cute
little noses, just, you know,

And also, and I blame you for this,
Matt, like, the, the, the burgeoning

hipster in me that can't choose,
like, the easy, you know, the obvious

answer would be cat, like, I was
like, I got to come up with something

cooler, but there has to be a reason.

So,

I love that.

we're keep behind in a rat.

Porcupines and rats?

All right.

bits.

Um, amazing.

We'll

We'll our porcupines and
our rats to stun our enemies

I wonder how they could help you out
of a stunned, because my dogs don't

really help me out of a stunned state.

They might help me relax.

in one, but,

All right, so let's talk about
being stunned in game and IRL.

Yeah, so kind of setting the scene.

So, so in, in, we play D& D 5e, but
I'm guessing in, in many TTRPGs,

there is a condition called stunned in
which your character is incapacitated.

And when you are incapacitated, it means
you get no action, you get no reaction,

and your movement is reduced to zero.

So you can't move, so you may be able
to like, Talk or be like vaguely aware

of your surroundings, but you're so

entranced.

But it doesn't mean that
you're like dead on the floor,

right?

You're not dead.

fall down.

You just Yeah.

can speak only falteringly.

Um,

So you

can't cast spells because
spells usually have verbal

and somatic.

components.

Yep, you're easier to hit because you
stand there like a big lump on a log.

Um, you fail anything that would
involve strength or dexterity.

Any saves of type.

So, there's a lot of ways
in game to be stunned.

There is the monk, which has the
stunning strike, which is a very powerful

thing that a monk can specifically do.

Uh, you, yesterday, you threw out
hypnotic pattern on the, the vampire,

on the vampires that attacked you.

Well, and this is the story now for
I think two sessions running with us,

Matt, is that you have had these, you
know, not necessarily big bads, but

you have had these, you've brought
these characters in, these beefy,

you, you, you faced us against a death
slod a couple of weeks ago that you

thought like you honestly, as a DM,
you thought it was going to be a fight.

You thought that it was
because those things are.

Ruff!

Like, they can, they can take some hits
and they can lash out with some hits.

So, you kind of came into that game like,
I got this, I'm putting my party against

the slod and we weren't expecting it.

We had just come out of this room
and we had gotten this thing that

we've been looking for, for a
really long time and we're feeling

good and then there's this, this.

You know, kind of thing standing in
our way of our, of our hasty exit.

Um, and then yesterday's game,
we came across a clearing and,

uh, a coven of what looked like
just, you know, like old regular

people.

led by a, a, you know, a
fanatical, leader, and, and

I loved how it started out.

The, the PCs kind of, you know, came
upon this crossroads in, this kind of

opening in a, in a field, and there's a
gallows, and there's a beautiful young

woman in a, Like I said, a charismatic
leader that is speaking to a small flock

of people and saying, This is a witch!

We're hanging her as a witch!

And all of you are like, What?

Why?

This is a fantasy world.

Why would they punish
her for being a witch?

Wouldn't they be into that?

And so the confusion was exactly
what I wanted and you kind

of approached the gallows and

it turns out

And Matt, uh, the other one,
again, had this fantastic idea.

He had an item that would maybe
help us determine if somebody

actually was a witch or not.

So we were gonna do this really weird
approach that I don't know if you're

watching this or listening and you don't
know much about D&D and you wonder,

like, do you always have to fight?

No, you could talk to people.

You could try and, like, persuade
or intimidate or deceive.

We don't do that.

We just walk in and start
swinging, but you could, is what

I'm saying, if you wanted to.

I don't, I don't know if anybody
knows that about, about D&D.

Um, so we thought maybe we would
try a conversation, you know,

that had all the makings for, yeah,

try a little tenderness.

And then we did what we do,
which is we started swinging.

he started swinging, and, and, that
was okay with me too, because, it,

what, these, these characters were,
these, This little, this little gaggle

of villagers were not just townies,
they were also Vampire Spawn in, in

This little light of mine, I'm gonna

bite you in the neck.

hmm.

Um, and Vampire Spawn are, they are the
weaker variety of Vampire, but they are

certainly I mean, they can get, they
can mess up, and they started to beat

the crap out of, uh, Evan's character.

Um,

Tee hee hee.

and then, when it was revealed that
all of them, not just the charismatic

leader, was a vamp, but all of these,
these five, uh, her, burn the witch,

um, they were all, they were a pack.

What is the pack of vampires called?

Is this

not a coven Oh.

vampires, the fang of co vampires.

Yeah.

uh.

Yeah.

Anyway, tell them about
the spell that you caught.

Cost casted.

You know, it's funny because
Chimerical, I often feel weak

compared to the rest of my party.

I feel like, and we've talked about
this on this podcast before, where

it's like, it's like everybody in
the party is a specialist, right?

Like they are real good at the
things that they are real good at.

And Chimerical is the generalist.

She's.

kind of good at a lot of things
instead of being really good

at any one or two things.

Um, and so, you know, I'm like
instantly like, what can I do against

a pack, a coven, a fang, a vampire's

about coven, by the

way.

Yep.

coven?

All right.

Thank you, Twilight series.

I'm sorry to have to admit

that.

was worth reading.

Well, and what's really funny is in
Twilight, Vampire Spawn are actually

the straw, anyways, but I digress.

Um, so anyways, I was trying to like
level the playing field, um, and like

give, give our party a fighting chance.

So as a bard, I have access to
a spell called Hypnotic Pattern.

And what Hypnotic Pattern does is you,
there, in D& D, there are, there are,

You can either like use your spell to
attack one or a number of people, or you

can do what are called area of effect.

So anybody in an area, and the spirit,
the spell will tell you how big or

small, uh, will have to do what's
called a saving throw to see if they

can like recognize that magic is being
cast on them and withstand the effects.

Well, I cast Hypnotic Pattern directly
over this little pack of, I think it

was four of them, kind of standing
down on the ground, um, and then I

Because anybody in that area has to
do, I think it was an intelligence

saving throw, to see if mentally they
could, you know, push the spell away,

and three of the four of them failed

it.

So what happened then is they
were all stunned, incapacitated.

They couldn't do anything.

It's this just warbling mass of
energy above them that, as the name

might suggest, hypnotizes them.

And so all they could do
was just stare up at it.

They don't see anything.

They don't hear anything.

They can't take actions,
reactions, and they can't move.

The only thing that can bring
them out of it is if, um, I think

you can be like shaken out of it.

So if somebody in their party had like
shaken them one at a time using their

action to do so, or if they took damage.

So I was like, let me do that.

That way we can kind of like
pick them off one by one.

That way we are in control.

We have the high ground

on the battlefield.

And it worked.

Thankfully, like a charm.

Now, you know, this is where we get
into like action economy because

like had I spent my entire turn to
cast that spell and they had all

saved, nothing would have happened.

I would have wasted a turn to try and
damage, um, or hinder in some way.

But what I realized as we were playing
is by my casting this one spell, this

one six second decision that, that
I and my character made completely

changed the course of what Matt had
presumably spent a lot of time planning.

He was ready for this kind of four on
five, you know, hot vampire fight action.

In more ways than one, because number
one, yes, they could have all saved

the spell and therefore not have been
stunned, or a, a dungeon master, I

could have known that when the leader.

You know, tried to snap them out of

Yep.

have actually worked, and
I didn't know that, so.

Whatever, that's not the point.

The point is, I got shut down.

These, these, these creatures, who
were going to provide entertainment,

damage, fear, towards the party.

You know, uh, you know, that's
part of, that's the fun of the

game, is like, being challenged.

They were just out for the count,

and

And that is such a metaphor for
what life with ADHD is like for us.

Yes, because, because, uh, As, as
I know that we've, we've touched on

before, but, it's that full shutdown
that feels so different, right?

It's that full, what do I do now?

How do I, what am I gonna, what is,
you know, like, really, completely,

just out, incapacitated, cannot take
actions, cannot react, cannot strength

save, cannot, you know, like, it

Yeah.

it is extreme, and we would love to
know what other people think about this,

but For me, at least, um, it becomes
something I just have to, I have to

deal with the feeling of being stunned.

I

Mm hmm.

Mm

I can't fight through it.

In fact, that, that often
times makes it worse to

hmm.

I can't, yeah, I have
to just experience it.

And, the, the, the, the difficult part
is that we don't, always expect it.

We, some things I can call,
some things I can guess, right?

But I did, you know, last week, I had
this, uh, this, uh, it wasn't even

an operation, this procedure done.

And, but it did, it did involve the
first anesthesia that I had been

through in 2030, 20 years or something.

I just forgot.

how intense it is.

Yeah.

Mm hmm.

Mm

my first thought about speaking today
was, do people with ADHD, brains

or anyone that struggles with time
blindness, because the whole point,

the whole concept of anesthesia
is that you are out, you are done.

And

Mm

think you're just going and then suddenly
you're awake and an hour has gone by.

And that is

hmm.

because

Yeah.

world where there is no time
and for it to actually be gone.

Not, not just, Oh yeah,
I was sleeping or I was

Mm hmm.

to be doing or I was doing something
I was supposed to be doing and

I just wasn't aware of time.

This is

Yep.

lights out

little cookies.

You had like an emotional

reaction to that last week
though, which was that I was not,

I was a little stunned by that.

Like, you know, we knew that you
were going into the procedure.

It's not a fun procedure to
have to prep for or go through.

You were put under anesthesia.

Like, so we knew those big pieces.

I do remember because you got it done
on a Wednesday and we were all like.

Okay, because you were like,
I'll be back up by Thursday.

No problem.

And we were like,

you know, having so I've never
been put under anesthesia.

I've never had an operation.

I broke my wrist once as a four
year old and got it put in a

cast.

And I've been given like
laughing gas at the dentist.

You know, fill cavities and things like
that, but like, otherwise I've never been

put under, so I don't know what that feels
like and therefore cannot be as empathetic

in that moment as I'd like to be.

But you were fully planning on
being fine on Thursday, which

we were all like, Matthew,

but you were, you were, but, and so,
so we all expected you to be like, you

know, recovering like you do when you
undergo any, anything in the medical

field, but you were like, upset about the
like three hours of time that you lost

and and that was kind of my hypothesis
too is that because you already have

a very fraught relationship with time
as is it you know that like the time

being taken from you that you don't even
get like at least with time blindness

we are aware at like oh crap i thought
that was going to take an hour it took

four and a half where did the time

go but this was just like

Right.

Never existed to you.

It never, it never existed.

And the other part of it.

I thought that it was three hours.

It was actually only a half hour.

But even that was, It was worse,
because I, it could have been

three hours, it could have been.

And, but yes, going, going back to
what you were saying, uh, Lindsay

says that the first time she, she had
anesthesia, she woke up crying because

it was just such a, just such a shock.

And I do want to stop real quick and I
want to say, I want to say that, uh, I,

in, in saying these things and saying
that I was emotionally upset or that it

was difficult to prep for this, I do want
very much to be open and honest about,

uh, my feeling that everybody should get
Uh, it is, it is a preventative measure.

I know way, way, way too many people

put it off and don't.

And there's a lot of things that I
think, you know, that I'm with you.

I don't know, know, are,
are 100 percent necessary.

I really do believe in this.

I want to urge everybody to go Get
a colonoscopy, I think it's like, an

American right, it's a human right,
mean, and the science is really good,

Yeah.

Yeah.

and I'm speaking from experience
because, you know, I now, I

know people who had really awful
experiences because they did not.

Let me get that out there.

This is not negative in that
way, I will do it again, in ten

years, gladly, you know, Woohoo!

But!

I will remember, hopefully,
because I'm much better at

taking notes than I used to be.

I'm going to remember the experience.

Yeah, I was, was just in an emotional
shock, stunned state for almost two days.

Mm

it finally wore off.

I know that there's some residual
elements to, you know, the

hmm.

Mm hmm.

and coming out of it, but there was
no, you know, it's not operation.

Yep.

there is no pain, there
is no discomfort, there is

Yeah.

prep really is the worst part of that, and
even that's not horrible, really, truly.

But man, I did not, did not expect
to be that just flabbergasted by the

loss of time, the emotional take.

And so yeah, I could not
do anything on Thursday.

I was trying and trying
and trying and trying.

So, you know, being, put under, into
twilight sleep is not, is not the only

way that, that you can be stunned.

Yep.

there's, there's lots of different ways.

I know that you have
been stunned yourself.

Um, let's talk about that.

What, what do we, what do we do?

What can we do when we feel the stunned

Right.

Well, and that was

kind of, and that

was exactly it, like, my hypothesis, and
this is a hypothesis, as we have said

many times and will continue to say.

Say many, many more times, we are not
medical professionals, so we don't know.

Yeah.

my hypothesis here is So, when you
are being stunned in game, whether

it's from a magic effect or a spell,
you typically do something, as I

mentioned before, called a saving throw.

In role playing games.

A lot of times when there's a saving
throw, there's something called advantage

and there's something called disadvantage.

So advantage means you get to roll the
dice twice and take the higher number.

Disadvantage is you get to roll the
dice twice and take a lower number.

And I have to wonder if
neurodivergent brains are rolling

most, if not all, of these dice.

saving throws to withstand
these effects at disadvantage.

It is doubly hard for us to prevent it.

I don't, and again, I don't know
this, then it might be neurotypical

in a neurotypical situation.

Now, not every time.

There are things everybody struggles
with just by virtue of being human.

So not trying to corner the
market for people with ADHD here.

Um, but I wonder if Neurotypical people,
in some of these cases, when we talked

about being stunned, being frozen,
being, it's an analysis paralysis

kind of a thing where it's like you
literally cannot take a step forward.

If, if neurotypical people are rolling
what is called just a straight roll, where

they just roll the dice once, you know,
or they're even rolling at disadvantage

because they've practiced and have gotten
really good at recognizing the warning

signs that something's gonna knock the
wind out of them, and they know how

to dodge those effects more fully and
completely than neurodivergent people

do.

Um.

And that's, that's the feeling
that as we've been talking about

this, that I personally just cannot
shake that how many things in,

in, in our lives totally stupefied

us because of our inability to, to
save, to roll a high enough number

on whatever the dice of life are.

Well,

uh, I do, I did find an
article, uh, on autism.

org,

Okay.

um, I, I tried to keep it
neurodivergent, uh, instead of

specifically ADHD, just because I know
that they're, they're so entwined.

And this is just one
person's take, uh, Sim C.

Rankin, R N C R N A.

I think she, Sim, she is a registered
nurse and, uh, has a child with ASD.

Um, and, and it, and, and
definitely experiences.

uh, a sensitivity to anesthesia, an
addition of, of behavioral problems,

uh, surrounding, I guess, the lead
up and maybe even, maybe even post?

So it, it's, she seems to be saying
that there's, like, even, uh,

even, like, something that can.

Not, hopefully not trigger, but just
kind of, make, have a larger effect

on them chemically, And then she
gets into some very specific, we'll,

we'll, I'll, I'll send this to you.

But, um, I did, I did let them know that I
had a DHD, they knew what I was taking it.

It wasn't.

It wasn't just that, but, um, but yeah,
she goes on to say, like, maybe, maybe

laughing gas would work instead, maybe
ketamine, maybe Special K would do the

triiiiick, but I don't know, like, trying
to, trying to say, the, is there something

about a drug that just knocks you out?

Well, but again, we're not talking
about like the drug itself with

you.

It did, it worked as intended.

It's, it's, but you know, what
has popped into my mind that

we've talked about a lot is our
emotional reactions to non emotional

things.

Why, you know, when something upsets us
at work or in life, like we get, You know,

I don't know if it's the RSD, if it's the
catastrophizing, but it's like, we take

it personally when I can't solve this
problem that speaks nothing to how I am as

a person, how giving or kind or loving I
might be, I take it as a personal insult.

Like, I am the dumbest,

worst.

You know, and so it's interesting
that the residual effect from the

drug, the medicine, I don't know what
we're going to call the anesthesia,

is the same thing as taking these

hits, you know, in our, in
our work and personal life.

It's the emotional reaction
that we're talking about, I'll

Because it, it, you know, I'll give
you a perfect example immediately.

In, in the span of this 30 minutes that we
were talking, we started talking about the

in game experience of casting a hypnotic
pattern, and We, in our, in our outline,

we actually took the, the official,

write that thing, an outline.

Yeah, the outline.

We actually took the spell and, and
the, the condition, um, uh, from D& D

Beyond, from the official things, and
sure enough, yes, I did not know that you

can snap people out of certain spells.

I just suddenly was like, wow,
I'm a terrible Dungeon Master.

I just don't ever prepare.

I don't ever do a good job.

I don't ever know what I'm doing.

It is hard.

Like, it's so, it's a constant,
ending, emotional reaction.

And it's like us trying to
Every single time we open our

mouths to not go there, right?

so if you take something that is, sure.

I can absolutely see why that would
be an emotional, emotional, it would

give you an emotional reaction.

It, I, I promise you it's
10 times worse for us.

It's just ten times more, right?

Now we're just pinging emotion back
and forth because now I'm like, that's

not your fault, it's my fault for
not reading that sentence in game.

I'm a terrible player.

Why would anybody want
to play games with me?

I'm the worst.

When I gear, there was no part
of me being like shady by not

I was reading that yesterday.

I know you know that, but
like, that's the, that was the

gremlin that just hopped into my

head.

All ADHD friendship is, is
just trading emotions back and

forth

and forth.

Back and

in really strange contexts.

Alright, so we're rolling disadvantage.

Something happens.

We can't, you know, maybe we have friends
that are rolling, I don't know, if

they're rolling advantage, maybe they are.

Maybe they, but they're at
least rolling, you know, they're

rolling you know, rolling dice.

We're getting out of this situation.

We are still stuck.

We're stuck.

still stuck.

can we do?

What do we do?

I have an answer, you're not going to like

it.

do have an answer.

Meditate.

Well, the answer to everything, like any.

Any emotional or physical malady that
we experience as human beings can

be, if not solved, then lessened or
unburdened with one thing, and it is time.

And, and, and like a lot, and that's,
that's especially because now I'm

like weaving layers for you as someone
who does suffer from time blindness.

So I'm telling you who is suffering
emotionally that the only way out of

the suffering is to allocate the right
amount of time to allow your mind

and body to experience that thing.

And I get the, the, the trap of
that is expecting someone who has

an already fraught relationship
with time to be able to do that.

Um, I remember, I don't know
why this, like, memory just,

uh, just came to my mind.

When I was in probably late elementary or
junior high, we, we had a DARE, Drug Abuse

Resistance Education, kiddies, officer.

Officer Laramie was our, and he,
like, we had, like, we all, like,

had to relate, like, he was our D.

A.

R.

E.

officer, and, like, all the kids, like,
we looked forward to our time with

Officer Laramie, and so he would come in
and, you know, help keep kids off drugs,

you know, like, no, he was very, like,
dad energy, just, like, Like middle aged

man, mustache, but he was char like he,
and he was so kind and, you know, he's

teaching us about drugs, basically.

That was the best part about D.

A.

R.

E.

is that they're trying to keep you
away from drugs while actively teaching

you, like, this is a pipe versus a

bong and

Yeah.

But I digress, but I will, I don't know
why this has stayed with me locked in as

a core memory, but there was a basically
like what to do with a drunk person.

And it was a unit on like smashing
all of the wives tales about how you

can help someone sober up faster.

And he had this whole like, do not give
them coffee because then you're just

going to have a hyper drunk person.

Do not put them in the shower
because then you're just going

to have a wet drunk person.

Do not give them a greasy meal because
then you're just going to have a

drunk person with an upset stomach.

Like going through all of these things
that we were all taught, you know,

would kind of like sober you up faster.

And the whole point of this spiel
was nothing sobers you up but time.

Okay.

When our hearts break, when we are
going through intense emotions over

you know, uh, love lost, love scorned.

We all know this from experience,
but when you're going through it,

you don't, the only thing that's
going to heal that broken heart

of yours is time and distance.

Like you just got to get
far enough away from it.

It's why there are phases and
layers and levels of grief.

Like you just kind of got to keep going.

It's, it's something that universally,
we as humans know, know, know.

If not fixes, at least
improves things, give it time.

That's why that's an adage.

And yet it is something that we

don't do.

We don't put it to, we do not give it,

we, you, you expected to go
under on Wednesday and come

back up completely normal on

Thursday.

Mm hmm.

And physically, I felt.

Fine, for the most part.

Physically, again,

Yeah.

you know, uh, so I just thought,
well, I don't have COVID.

I'm not, I don't have the flu.

I'm not sick.

I don't have, like,
the, the correct excuse.

I don't

Yeah.

excuse.

But what is that excuse?

That's, so, I mean, that's it.

it's,

like,

Well,

but it's,

that excuse?

I did,

right.

Like, that's not, so, you're right.

Like, To be able to have friends
around you and to be able

to say, guys, I am so sorry.

I don't have a good reason.

cannot do today.

I just can't.

Exactly.

And that, like,

that's one of them.

by the way, friend being yourself,
because that was, that was the person

that wasn't going to let me do that.

Exactly.

Exactly.

But, It was Matt that was like, I have so

Yes.

got to snap out of it.

What is wrong with me?

Well, and, and here, here's the
what what, if you want that.

Well, what?

like you, me and Evan are
all especially bad at this.

And I have a feeling we are not alone.

When we are starting to, like,
feel the effects of something, we

think I could just push through.

Yeah.

999 times out of a thousand.

It would be better if you would just
take the day and try again tomorrow.

Because ultimately what happens is when
you try and just push through things,

you cause more damage and have to stay.

And I would rather have, I would rather
lose you fully for a day and have you

at a hundred percent tomorrow or 75%.

Why do I have this expectation that
anybody's ever at a hundred, right?

But instead what happens when we
try and push through is that we

deplete our, and now we can get to
the whole like short rest long rest

discussion again, like where you're
not allowing yourself to fully heal.

So instead of like you're, you're, you
know, a good day, let's say, let's say

a good day your ceiling is 85 percent
because I just think 100 percent is way

too much to ever ask of anybody, okay?

So that's like, I've gotten my rest, I've
restored all my spell slots, like I have

all of my provisions, I am ready to go.

I'm gonna be at about 85 percent

today.

But when you're pushing it, you're
maybe at 60%, maybe at 25%, right?

And the longer you push, the
longer you stay at this, and

it continuously goes down.

So like, I could have been at 85 if I
had just rested today and gotten there,

but instead I'm going to come in and my
ceiling today is only going to be 60.

And I'm going to keep
pushing through today too.

So tomorrow my ceiling
is only going to be 40.

And now we've gotten to the
end of the week and we're at

these incredibly low level

levels.

Whereas if we just stayed down,
if we had just respected time and

had said, fine, I, yes, I give in.

I'm just going to stay in my PJs.

I'm going to rest.

I'm going to zone out.

I'm not going to use any of the
limited mental energy and physical

energy that I'm already dealing

with.

But we don't, and I do not say that to
point fingers at you or Evan, especially.

I'm saying I am just as guilty, like,

but how do We Yeah,

um,

it's the boomer's fault.

There it is.

Boomer blame is back in season

three.

little bit, it's a little
bit, but it's a little bit.

A little

Yeah, we need, we need,
we need A safe word.

We need, we need the word that
we can utter to each other that

says, no, Matt I'm serious.

Stay down, man.

Like we, we should have enforced that.

We should have said, you know what?

You're taking Wednesday and Thursday

off.

What you're going through is
going to be hard on you physically

and emotionally and spiritually.

I don't think

it was that hard on you
spiritually, was it?

Um, you know, and like we should
have, we should have been able to

look you in the eye and say, kumquats.

And with the uttering of the safe
word, kumquats, you would have known.

We're

not messing around.

I don't know.

No, I love that.

I think, I think you're a
hundred percent correct.

I think you are totally correct.

And, and to your point, I am still,
I'm, I'm still not at my 85, my allowed

hmm.

Mm

So, because I've just been trying to push.

hmm.

Mm

Keep on truckin Yeah, that's
that has got that That mentality

has got to be squashed.

hmm.

And I think you gotta, like, like
there are days where I get up and

I don't, I don't want to, right.

I wanna stay in bed.

I wanna keep my PJs on.

I wanna go play BG3.

One of the things that my very
boomer father did, instill

in me was take a shower.

Get up and take a shower.

Because the shower could be the thing
that, like cha, you know, you might get

outta the shower and be like, yeah, okay.

I do.

I do feel.

Well enough to proceed or you take
that shower and you still can't.

And that's when you
know, okay, I've tried.

I've literally tried.

I pulled myself out of bed.

I took the first step
in readying for the day.

And I will say that as much
as I hate to say that my dad

was right about anything ever.

Mom, if you're listening to
this, don't tell dad about

this part of the conversation.

But he was right about that because
I do know immediately after I take a

shower if I can continue with the day
or actually do need to go get back in

bed.

Yeah.

And that, but that's, I mean, that's
the equivalent of a safe word, right?

Like the shower is my safe word.

Is that like by, by virtue
of doing that, I will then be

influenced into what I actually

need.

Take a shower,

everybody.

Take a shower, everybody.

Find that safe word is the, is the hope
for a, you know, better experience.

Um, way to help.

I love this idea and I
want to find my safe word.

It's not going to be shower
because I don't shower every day.

I don't either.

But,

yes, but finding that
safe word is so true.

And that, that getting out of
stunned, I mean, sometimes, just

like the spell, some people can come
in and say, snap out of it, right?

And in, you know, in a
positive way, in a helpful way.

So.

I'm now giggling because I
like that you come in and snap

and I come in and bitch slap.

And that says a lot about

the types of human beings we are.

Yeah, well, I like this.

I like this, Alison.

I will try to do better about
just being, being aware and

being like, Hey, guess what?

And I, I'm stunned.

I have the stunned condition.

I'm incapacitated.

Don't try and push through.

Let your party come rescue

you.

Or your foes kill you.

Yeah, you don't want to die from ADHD.

You don't want, don't want

RSD to kill you.

This wasn't going to be the
death saving throw episode, Matt.

That's later in the season.

Oh God.

With that, I'm going to, you know,

come up with my

safe word the rest of the day.

Yeah, let's come up with our save word.

Let's go have a good meeting.

This was a good, good, good episode three.

Thanks for, thanks for bringing
us a great topic and your full

honesty about like what you were
going through and experiencing.

You know people, yeah, it's, it's
people say over and over that they.

Uh, even if we, even if we get embarrassed
talking about these things ourselves, for

We do.

um, they're still glad that we're
talking about them, so, go on out there.

It actually takes a long
time, at least in Chicago.

Go on out there, if you're of age.

Don't worry about it before,
but if you're of age, go ahead

and book that colonoscopy.

Treat

Treat yourself.

Yep.

You know.

And, uh, and if you have a reaction to
the anesthesia the way I did, give me

a, give me a, me a, uh, give me a call.

Give me a note.

Give me a text.

I'll, I'll help you through
it, because I've been there.

Yeah.

The Price is Right got "don't forget
to spay or neuter is the platform of

ADHd20 "don't forget to schedule your

colonoscopy?

I think so.

I think we found it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Take care of yourself.

Take care everybody.

Pew pew!