Matt: Goodbye.

Alison: No!

What are you doing?

You're sharing an outline with me!

Matt: Yeah, I'm not a
superstitious person.

We've been writing these very loose
outlines and then we immediately

don't do anything about it.

So there's a little
element of superstition.

If we don't do that, then we
won't have anything to say.

I don't know.

Hello, Alison.

How are you?

Alison: I'm great slash tired.

But mostly

Matt: Okay.

Good.

I am a good.

Slash.

A little sad.

Just a friend's mom died and it's not like
she was the center of my life or anything,

but, you know, it's, it's, it's more the
concept of when you lose a parent in a,

you know, very un-normal time of life.

Normal?

Unique?

Unnatural?

I don't know.

But when you're 30, when you
lose a parent, when you're 30.

Alison: Earlier life than expected.

Matt: Yeah.

Where, where you feel like you're
not ready, actually, you don't

have the skills to deal with it.

This is, this is the time where parents
are going to start, you know, leaving us.

And so it's kind of like, Oh boy.

This friend has been super
chill and he's going to be fine.

Everybody's going to be fine because
we're 20 years more of an adult but

it's still like, oh boy, here it goes.

It's happening.

It's happening.

So, that's just going to be you.

That's going to be a hard one.

So, you know, sometimes.

I think I've done a
pretty good job of not.

Not really.

It's not like I've been
ignoring my mortality, but just.

I don't necessarily acknowledge it
the way other people, my age do.

Cause think it's boring.

Alison: I'm like, hell yeah,
I'm coming up on another decade.

And refusing to do the, I
guess kind of more normal, I'm

opting out of this birthday.

I don't want to age up.

I do.

Every year has been better than the last.

My twenties were a raw disaster.

Thirties were pretty good to me.

So I'm excited to push on into
my fifth decade and turn 40.

Matt: Yeah, I know.

My mom had a birthday yesterday and she
has hated birthdays since she turned

40, she locked herself in her room.

Hmm.

It was very scarring for me because
I didn't understand what, what that

was, but I, I, I have definitely
managed to n ot go that route.

But, you know, it is,
it's a little different.

When I turned 40, I got married, I
made more money than I'd ever made.

But so many changes all at once.

Life freaking crushing changes, both
exquisite and difficult, and it hasn't

really been that much of the case yet.

You know, it's only April,
but this year going to be.

It's like, Hmm.

I wonder what I can shake up.

And that's actually partly what
I, what I wrote as notes as far

as, ADHD goes and, and D 20,
Dungeons & Dragons, and how they,

how they intersect, how they collide.

Right.

That's what we're talking about.

Some day I'm going to have like a.

A bunch of ' Amazing.

sound effects and I can
just press them and go.

Alison: I want you to, I will
now be officially sad effects

don't go into this episode.

Episode number...tree?

Matt: Three episode number three.

Hopefully we'll see how it goes.

I am.

You know, It is going to be a tricky
thing because i t's not difficult

to edit these when I start editing,
it is a joyful freaking experience.

It's the getting into
the mode of doing it.

Like being able to stop the other
millions of things that I have to do.

To do this other thing that
I'm not getting paid for yet.

But going back to what I was going to
say, I have, I have this constant desire

to change everything, all the time.

Literally all the time.

My life.

you know, my, my, my gear.

My job.

It's just, it's a never
ending need for new and that's

definitely a big part of ADHD.

But you, I wanted to talk to you about
this because you are very close to

finishing the second season of Critical
Role, which, for those of you who

don't know, I don't know why you don't
know this, but Critical Role is...

the is the pinnacle of
Dungeons and Dragons live play.

They weren't the first necessarily,
but they are by far the ones, you know,

they, they kind of make all the rules.

And I have enjoyed every minute that I've
watched of theirs, but you're talking

about going on YouTube and watching four
hours at a time, four hours at a sitting.

And I, it is just brutally
difficult for me to do that.

How close are you to ending second season?

Alison: So it's the second
season is 141 episodes, each

episode three to four hours long.

I'm at episode 135.

So let's say let's see 135.

Times four.

So that's 540 hours just of
Critical Role Season Two.

I also watched an eight episode mini
series over the summer, which is

really what catapulted me into this.

So that's another 32 hours.

Plus I'm 15 episodes
into Critical Role three.

That's 15 times four plus 32 plus 540.

So in less than a year, since sometime
around last June, I have consumed

632 hours of Critical Role content.

And that's just the shows.

That's just the show is that's
not like me living on their

every last word on social media.

That's certainly not me talking to
anybody who will listen to me about how

much I love this and all things D and D.

But it's, it's interesting to me
that you say that, you know, one

of your side effects of ADHD is an
obsession and fascination with the new,

because I feel exactly the opposite.

I don't like, I only want
like comfort and to feel safe.

I am the person who has read the
same books, 47 times and watch

the same movies 470 more times.

So getting me to do
something new is really hard.

And so it's funny that I blame that
on my ADHD and you blame gotta have it

gotta have the new, sexy thing on yours.

Wildly fascinating.

Matt: The difference is
probably you don't envy me.

Whereas I envy you.

I really envy your ability to, to be
able to sit down and watch 600 hours.

Alison: I do want to point out
though, that that is in part

personality and in part lifestyle.

Like you are married, you have to
take into account somebody else's

thoughts feelings, objections,
hopes wishes, et cetera.

It's just me in here.

Matt: Yeah, no.

It is yes, lifestyle does
play a factor for sure.

But the closest thing I have to routine
is to try to wind down at night.

And I've got automations that start
turning down the lights at 10 o'clock.

I may not be able to fall
asleep until midnight.

But if I can at least just kind
of get towards bed then it means

I won't be up until 2 necessarily.

And so I pick something to
watch on YouTube every night.

And it's just, I don't
always choose Critical Role.

When I do, I'm very happy.

But I'm just as happy to watch a
video on how e-Camm Live and Descript

work together or, or Airtable.

And then sometimes there'll be
in the mood for Critical Role.

I can't stick the way that you can stick.

Alison: What's interesting though,
is so with Critical Role I'm

I'm five episodes from the end.

So I feel, I very intimately
know these characters now.

I feel like they are my little
imaginary friends in some way.

Because I haven't had the same amount
of time with the new Critical Role

season that's about 16, 17 episodes,
and I never watch it before bed.

And I think that this goes back
to the whole comfort thing.

Like I feel comforted and soothed, even
though we're in a very high stress point

of Season Two that I'm almost done with.

Like it does, get my heart
rate, you know, elevated because

we're fighting the big bads.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: But it's that comfort.

It's like, I know you.

I like, whereas with Critical
Role Three, I don't know them yet.

So I find no comfort, no joy in that
being my immediately pre bedtime activity.

Matt: So that's, that's one
thing I don't envy you of.

Is that.

I can turn on any season and just
drop in and be fascinated equally.

Like I do get to know the
characters as it's not that.

And if I'm able to power through and
watch enough so that I do get emotionally

involved with everybody, it's going
to be even more rich and great for me.

But.

everyone has been like Oh, my God
slogging through Critical Role three.

I have had no problem with it because
everybody's new and that's just what

happens . And new relationships are
always so awkward, for me, there's

always Are we going to be friends?

Are we?

I maybe not, really truly.

Okay.

It's not worth it bye, you know, I have.

I have the ability to be not colder,
but just more flibbertigibbet.

I don't know.

Alison: What was that word again?

Matt: Flibbertigibbet.

Alison: Sure.

Matt: I just, I don't feel that stress.

I don't need that comfort.

I almost never read books twice.

Almost never watch movies twice.

And I have no problem with that.

No problem.

Alison: I wonder if it's, what,
what, like what facet of my

personality should we blame?

Is it the ADHD?

Is it the fact that my
astrological sign is Cancer?

And, you know, we are known for
being crabby little home bodies.

You know, maybe, maybe I'm
blaming the wrong thing here.

Who knows.

Matt: Yeah, I don't know.

Here's here's the nice
thing about you though.

We touched on the concept of fandom.

Fan being a fan of something.

Which starts with a Oh, cool.

And then might turn into obsession
and then burn really hot.

Almost to an uncomfortable level.

And then, overfamiliarity is bred.

And then, maybe like annoyance slash well
you owe me kind of phase goes through and

then turns away from the thing that you're
a fan obsessed with out of anger, because

they're not giving you what you want?

So they don't sound the same or
look the same or act the same.

and then you, and then
there's the breakup period.

And then hopefully like a much
more calm and rock steady return.

Hopefully or not, but oftentimes right.

Alison: I'm just so glad that
we never went through that.

Matt: Well, that's what
I was going to say.

That is what I was going to say is
that you have all the symptoms of

most of that circle, you go white hot.

But you kind of break through
and you end up being a loyal fan.

You may be maybe more annoyed or
you're maybe more cautious about all

the things, especially if it's new
stuff like cautious about a new album,

cautious about a new you know, season.

But you don't.

you don't blow them up.

You don't burn bridges, which
I really, I respect that.

I think that is pure Alison.

Whether it's ADHD or Cancer the Crab, I
think that's pure Alison, that's a choice

that you make, and I love you for that.

Alison: Thank you.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: So I teased this, I think
in the very first episode that we

recorded about this article that I read
that kind of broke me open and made

me say this really resonates with me.

I really need to go seek treatment
or whatever it is for ADHD.

And I think it relates to everything
that you just said in that arc of

fandom, to the ongoing theme that we
now have, where I have a hard time

with a blank page, and that fear.

And now what we're talking about in
terms of obsessions slash comfort.

You know, like whatever these
little security blankets that I've

dropped throughout the world are.

And so in the article, it was a mother
of, I think she was a psychologist

writing this article, but about
diagnosing her own son with ADHD and a

symptom that let her know okay, this is
something we've got to pay attention to.

The son was somewhere in the like
five to eight year old corridor.

So still figuring out life.

And he social child as he was, was having
a really hard time with new situations

to the point of debilitating breakdowns.

Where like if he was going to things that
she thought would be really fun for him,

like a friend's birthday party, he would
just have these panic attacks in the car

on the way, sobbing, screaming, crying.

Wouldn't want to be ripped
from his mother's grasp.

And, and kind of her journey of,
of walking through that with him.

And what she realized it was
the ADD in him where you can't

see the end at the beginning.

And that raises a sense of panic,
like physically in your body.

And I had this moment of oh
my God, I understand exactly

what this kid is going through.

Because like my friends know for a fact,
if I'm going to a new place and I am the

first to arrive, I will sit in my car.

Hell.

Even if it's not a new place, even
if we're just meeting for dinner, I

will sit in my car and I will wait
until I see somebody that I know.

Before I will walk in, you
know, to that place on my own.

Because what if I don't know
where the host stand is?

And what if I look like an idiot
to nobody in the world that's

paying any attention to me.

Right.

But I suffered, with this weird
anxiety that in high school, my parents

just kind of wrote off where, you
know, like lunch was a chaotic mess.

Because what if I can't find my
friends, there's always the sense

of What if I don't know the way.

And apparently that is not something
that neurotypicals deal with.

Apparently most people just say, I'll
walk into a room, I'll look around.

I'll find my friend.

It's going to be okay.

I don't think that way.

And so now my friends know if they get to
a restaurant before me, Alison turn left

at the host stand we're three booths back.

They know to walk me through a new
situation to me, if they know that I'm

going to start feeling unsure of it.

That was the article that
I read that was like, okay.

So this way that I am is not just an
Alison quirk, this is a known thing.

And there are other people out
there like me who have this weird

anxiety around new situations.

Matt: I know exactly what you're
talking about and I do the same

thing, but I do with a difference.

If I'm going to a situation where
I probably don't know anybody.

Okay.

Let's say I go to a situation
where I do know somebody.

I will try my best to not
just focus on them all night.

Like I'm just as nervous as you
are about meeting new people, the

anxiety of that, the discomfort of it.

But I've been accused in my life of being
kinder to strangers than I am my friends.

Like I'm I'm trying to urge
strangers into a deep conversation.

Conversations I won't have with
people that I've known for 20 years.

And so I'll go with my wife to a
party and it's just, it's, I hate

when I do this, but it happens and
she doesn't know anybody and she

doesn't want to talk to anybody.

But to me, going to a party is Okay,
I'm going to put on this costume.

I'm gonna put on this
performance of Party Guy.

You know, I may not want to play that
role at all, but the show has to go on.

I've been invited.

I'm going.

I don't often go for fun.

I just kind of go because
I feel like I should.

And I go, but once I'm there, I'm the
opposite of what you're talking about.

I try to hang out and I try to have
slightly deeper than conversations

about the weather with people.

I don't know.

It's very weird.

Alison: You are really
good with strangers though.

And it's funny because as I know that
I'm the more like textbook extrovert.

And people don't believe me when I
tell them how much I hate strangers.

No part of me.

And I usually will just relay it
back to think about when we met.

Did I approach you?

99 times out of a
hundred the answer is no.

We were either shoved into a mutually
awkward situation or somebody introduced

us, but very rarely do I just walk up
to somebody and say, Hey, be my friend.

In fact.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Like so my first time getting
to truly hang out with you one-on-one

was when I was visiting Chicago.

And you and I went to lunch together.

That was the most nerve wracking
moment, both in asking you if you

would want to have lunch with me.

And then also like waiting for you
to arrive at the restaurant in a

city where I don't know anything.

And it's like this guy who I know
of is going to walk in and hopefully

we'll find things to talk about.

Spoiler alert.

We did, we were fine.

All worked out, you know, but
it is very rare that I will put

myself out there in that way.

But if I know you and I'm
comfortable with you, yeah.

You can't get me to shut up ever.

So that's why people don't believe me.

When I say I hate strangers.

I hate new situations.

All of that makes me wildly
uncomfortable and anxious.

I guess, cause I exude a confidence,
like once we're in some kind of

relationship, but they just forget
how awkward I was at the beginning.

I don't know.

Matt: And people don't believe
that I am a homebody introvert.

Alison: Cause you're so good at like,
your ability to make everybody feel seen.

You know, like you can just stick
that little drill right in there

and extract exactly the question
that you need to ask to make

somebody feel at ease or feel seen.

And it's a really magical,
wonderful quality.

Matt: And it is a genuine quality.

When I say performance,
it's not a fake thing.

But it is the thing that I have to do.

It does take a lot of energy from me.

But I didn't realize until I,
till I married an introvert,

that that's what I was.

Because she's, she's doesn't
need to meet new people.

Doesn't need to make new friends.

Doesn't need friends around.

Doesn't need any social engagement at all.

And I realized, oh, okay.

So that thing that I feel after five
nights of making people feel seen.

I kind of close up.

That's introversion.

That's what introversion is.

Alison: I don't know if it's age or
the pandemic or what, but I think that

I have definitely started to skew more
ambivert in the past few years and now,

when I go, like I went and traveled
last weekend with a group of friends.

All of whom I love.

And we did things that I chose
to do joyfully and willingly.

When I came home, I did not
want to see or hear or talk to

anybody for two straight days.

Like I I'm learning that my recharge
time is taking me longer and longer.

I'm no longer fueled by those connections.

That's not the right way to put
that I'm no longer fueled by, you

know, just being around people.

I can also fuel myself in solitude as
much as I like being around people.

It's pretty balanced.

It's pretty 50/50 now.

If I have too much alone time, I get
a frenetic energy and have to surround

myself with people and do things.

If I'm around people too much, I have
to get home and talk to nothing and no

one for a couple of days to reenergize.

It's weird.

Matt: It is, it is weird.

And, you know, tying it to this game.

I did mention a couple of episodes ago
that one of the amazing things about this

game for me is the fact that it forces
quote, unquote forces because you don't

have to do anything, it's just a game.

But it seems to me that there is a
much higher chance for people, new

people talking to other new people
to drop all of the just super surface

level conversation that is normal.

Like my favorite favorite thing, I've
missed it very much being in the Midwest.

Cause it doesn't happen very often,
is that Southern Well, I've got time

to talk to you about this thing that
happened to my grandmother last week.

Like Southerners?

Strangers talk to you, you know,
and, and so anything that I can

do to be in a situation where
I mean, you know what it is?

I think, I think.

Okay.

I think this is what it is.

My parlor trick about making
people feel seen is to just get

them to talk about themselves.

And I don't know what
to do when people don't.

But this game has that ability to
just kind of strip all that out.

Just, you are not even playing you.

Alison: But you are.

Matt: But you are exactly, but you are.

Alison: So there's one question
I've had in the back of my brain

pretty much since we started
playing Dungeons and Dragons is.

Is this for everyone?

And I think the like, Inclusionist in
me, wants to believe that if people

would just open their damn minds
and hearts and give this a shot.

Everybody could love
this as much as we do.

But maybe not.

uh, You know, me, I want to tell
everybody everything all the time.

So it's weird for me to have
this thing that really is just

for me and a very small circle.

Getting back to that comfort
motif that we started out on.

That's an uncomfortable place
for me, but just cause it's

uncomfortable doesn't mean it's bad.

Matt: And I think you're, I
think you're totally right.

It is a much easier sell to your friends
to watch a TV show or go listen to a band.

It's a concept that
everybody does every day.

This is asking a lot of a human being.

It is something that anybody can do.

And I will hold that you
don't need a degree in improv.

You don't need to be an actor.

You don't need to like games.

I think it is a therapeutic
thing for people.

I think that it, it does teach
you a lot about yourself.

But there's also other
ways to do that .Therapy.

Actual improv.

What a weird thing that you kind of have
to use the rules of, of a thing that's

performance-based, but then you're not
performing for anybody usually, unless

you're Critical Role and a few others.

But even, but even then it's not.

It's.

It is a weird thing sometimes.

Don't think about it too hard.

Alison: I will.

I'm not losing.

I'm definitely not the only time
that I lose sleep over anything

Dungeons and Dragons related.

So Fitz and I play a Thursday night
game with strangers from the internet.

Which there's another, that was hard for
me to, to be like, I'd only shared this

with some of my nearest and dearest and
people that I feel very comfortable with.

So when it was first, you know, asked,
do you want to join the Thursday night

game with people you don't know that
you will probably never meet that may

or may not judge you and may or may not
get you in the way that your friends do.

It was a leap of faith
that I took to join it.

And now it's one of my favorite
days of the week because

of the Thursday night game.

But it is from 8:00 PM until we usually
wrap somewhere between 1130 and midnight.

I've had to modify my entire Fridays,
you know, that, it's it just cause to

what you were saying at the beginning,
like you need that wind downtime.

Which I do too.

I'm the same way.

I absolutely get into bed at nine,
hoping to be asleep by 11, just cause

I need that time to put the day away.

And so I still need that time at
the end of playing until midnight.

And then also it's so exciting and I'm
usually so like just keyed up by all

these weird, stupid make-believe things
we did, but I, I still get so excited

and so emotionally invested in them.

Evan made fun of me earlier in the week?

Like I had made the comment that
sometimes when I talk about Dungeons

and Dragons to my friends, I feel like
how my friends with eight year olds

must feel when they're trying to talk
about Minecraft or whatever it is.

And Evan was like, yeah, I kind of
experienced that with you when you were

telling me about your Thursday game.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: So.

It goes back to maybe
it's not for everybody.

Matt: But

Alison: And I'm not complaining.

I think it's the best.

Matt: Yeah, I'm not complaining either.

But it's funny.

Uh, At the beginning of this.

podcast, I realized that I have an
actual goal and the way that this ties

in is because as a Dungeon Master, I
would like to play a world with y'all.

To build one and then play it
where characters have goals.

And that's harder in Barovia.

It really is because it's not your
world and you were put in it and I mean,

you have goals, but it's it's harder.

And I realized for this podcast,
I have a goal which is not, not

like me, really, that I have.

Okay.

You ready?

Alison: I lay it on.

Matt: I don't even know whether
we'll add this to the, to the

actual podcast, but maybe if I say
it out loud and put it out loud.

I want to have Jennifer Kretchmer
as a guest on this podcast.

And then I would like to
have Deborah Ann Woll.

Because, Jennifer Kretchmer is
very open about having ADHD.

And then she's great friends, of course,
with Deborah Ann Woll, who has a husband

who is, who is blind, low vision.

And I was just like, Oh my gosh, those
are very, possibly achievable goals.

Alison: Very intersectional.

Is that the right use of that application?

Matt: I think so.

Alison: I love that you
are inspired to have goals.

And verbalize them, speak
them into the universe.

Matt: Yes.

In order to make it that goal though,
you and I are going to have to

One, keep recording this podcast.

Two..

Alison: Oh, no.

Matt: Edit it and put it out.

Alison: So it's funny.

I was talking to my friend Paige about
it and she was like, great, where can

I listen to it and I was like, so we're
going to actually do things the right

way instead of the Alison way for once.

So I think that getting to talk to
heavy hitters in the Dungeons and

Dragons and disability space is the
coolest goal ever, and I am fully

onboard and will do everything in
my power to help make that happen.

Matt: Thank you.

Alison: Yay.

Matt: I just think I could come up
with some amazing questions for,

for anybody who plays this game.

Anybody honestly.

Any darn person.

Alison: It goes back to the
consummate, making people feel seen

and heard and loved and surrounded.

Matt: I can do that.

Alison: In a cocoon of safety.

And we will be other people's safe space.

To talk about Dungeons and
Dragons as long as they want to.

Matt: Yes.

Ma'am.

Um, well, speaking of winding
down, it is your time to start

doing that is your quitting time.

I don't know, man, I feel
good about this podcast.

It makes sense to me.

I don't know how about you.

Alison: It gets all my
hearts, all my stars.

Uh, Today I came to the table
with a blank page and didn't die.

Matt: Good for

Alison: So

Matt: And I came to the table with a page.

Alison: And a goal!

I feel good about this.

Matt: That's good.

That's good.

Well, Alison, thank you for
doing this podcast with me.

And until next week,

Alison: Yeah, I'll talk to you
between now and then, but especially

Matt: Yeah.

I'd probably talk to you.

Yeah.

Okay.