Alison: Are you hearing five of yourself?

Matt: I think today it's only two.

That's fine.

Alison: That feels like
nightmare fuel to me, man.

Matt: I know, but I don't
know what else to do about it.

Alison: I applaud your tenacity.

Matt: Is it tenacity or stupidity?

Alison: Yes.

Indeedy.

Matt: Hello, Alison.

Alison: Hello, Matthew.

Matt: let me, sorry.

Let me remove the creepy picture.

Alison: Matthew's favorite
thing to do, put things on the

screen that'll make me scream.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

Uh, demons, demons anyway.

Hello, happy Friday.

Alison: Love it.

Matt: Um, so it's a rainy gray Friday.

It's been 40 days of gray.

Alison: That's a lot of gray.

Matt: Two sunny days in 40 days.

That's too much.

That's too much.

Alison: I just, I feel sometimes like you
and I just need to trade where we live.

I just think you're more
wired for where I am.

And I'm more wired for where you are.

Matt: That could be true.

I'm definitely not wired for
here and I never have been.

Alison: Wired for here.

I

Matt: I'm not wired for there either!

Alison: Where are we wired for?

Where do we belong?

Oh, God.

This is taking a, uh turn.

This is what happens when
we record on Fridays.

Normally we don't dear listener.

Normally this is a midweek party for us.

This week it's a Friday, not even Friday.

It's 5:30 on Friday for me.

So like my brain is out of my head.

Just over there.

Matt: That's okay.

If it happens.

If it doesn't happen.

This could either be episode
five or the Lost episode.

What if we did.

An entire episode.

Where we recapped all
five—six?—seasons of Lost.

Alison: That wouldn't work because
I only watched seasons one and

whatever the last season was, I
just skipped the whole middle.

And I'm probably the only person
that didn't hate the ending as

a result because I didn't invest
all those years in between.

And that seems like what
people were most mad about.

Like I watched all that...

for that?

And I'm like meh!

I watched 18 episodes for that.

I didn't lose a lot of time on it.

So we'll have to pick a different show.

If you want me to go deep on
a season by season breakdown.

Matt: What show would that
be, by the way, Alison.

Alison: the other thing is, I
don't know that I don't know what

show we've both watched all of.

Matt: I wonder if we share any
sitcoms, like The Office or.

Oh Friends

Alison: Friends or Firefly.

Matt: Firefly.

Wait, you have seen all of Firefly?

Alison: Yes.

Matt: You left Buffy and
order to get to Firefly.

Alison: Now I've seen all of Buffy too.

Matt: Oh, wow.

Alison: We could do Buffy, like.

The end was a slog for me.

The last season of it was
great, but three through five.

Absolutely not.

Except for the musical episode.

Matt: I would say four through five.

Three four is when she goes to.

Alison: It's for when she goes to
college, three is all high school.

Okay.

then you are correct.

Okay.

Matt: Yeah.

Yeah.

Alison: Yeah.

So see.

There is some overlap.

Well, and you were there
for my launch into Buffy.

there the first time I watched the
very first episode ever and then

we condensed the entire season and
to something stupid, like 13 days.

Matt: Let me share something
with the listeners of ADHd20.

My friend, Alison.

Alison: I'm about whatever
you're going to say.

Matt: My friend Alison made an
enormous deal of being frightened

of things, horror movies.

And then the list was very long, but I
had faith that she could pull through.

And now we play this game called
Dungeons and Dragons that is set in

a land that is chock-a-block full of
vampires, zombies, nightmarish things.

You were truly worried that
you would be afraid of Barovia.

But you were really worried
that...I can't even do it.

You were really worried that you
were, gonna be afraid of Buffy.

My God.

No.

I know there's a couple
of moments here and there.

Hush.

Alison: Uh, I hated Hush.

Matt: Hush is very scary..

That was genuinely scary.

Alison: I will admit that Hush
is one of the best episodes.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: But it was scary.

So I didn't love it.

Matt: Yeah.

Yeah, but you have just come so far is
what I'm my point is that you crave.

You crave the night now.

You crave the night.

Alison: For whatever it is, I've never
had a problem with vampires and zombies.

Those have been the two horror
genres that I'm okay with.

Matt: Really.

Alison: It's more like I do not do
anything ghosty supernatural, like that.

Or just gruesome, like anything
along like the Freddy Kruger and,

Centipede and like any of those

Matt: Wow.

You went from Freddy Krueger to Centipede

Alison: Quite the leap!

Matt: Whoa.

There's so much in between that.

Yeah.

Alison: Between those two.

I really, really, really wanted to
love Supernatural because I have a

massive crush on Jared Padalecki.

And it scares me too much.

Like I, that, that was one that I
gave a…yes, Supernatural scares the

shit out of me, which is probably why
you guys had to drag me into Buffy.

Matt: Yeah.

Interesting.

Alison: First of all, the first two
seasons of Buffy, like you could see

the strings holding up the baddies.

I didn't have to willingly
suspend my disbelief there.

Matt: You could absolutely see the,

Alison: the zippers.

You know,

Matt: But Anyway, I've
been very impressed.

The scary things can be fun.

Alison: This, our whole friendship has
been a journey of you pulling me into

the scary woods and the nerdy woods.

And I've come very far in both plights.

Matt: And that is a great segueway to
what I wanted to talk about today, Alison.

We've actually talked about this already.

Chances are, we'll talk about
it many times in this podcast.

One of the reasons we wanted to
start this is because you are a woman

with ADHD, but more impulsive type.

And I am more inattentive type and
they're suppose quote-unquote supposed

to be, generally the other way around.

And you said something the other day
to me, that struck fear into my heart.

Alison: No.

Matt: No.

It didn't, it wasn't that bad, but, you
were like something about getting all

the, not knowing how to do anything.

And.

And I, I was thinking about it
because it, I'm in a situation.

My wife's father is just a salt
of the earth Midwestern man.

He is old school.

And an amazing person.

Somehow he ended up being a liberal
in a family of, not as liberals and.

he's giving and kind and strong.

And the man refuses outright to even try.

To even try technology.

And it's something that we laugh about
because it's so easy to do, right?

It's so easy to, as you get older
and as technology moves faster.

To let it go.

Right.

I just let it go.

Certainly with something like
social media, I don't always have

the energy to quote unquote, do it
to create it, to be a part of it.

That doesn't mean that I don't know how.

But when it comes to a new something,
a form of communication that supersedes

older communications, when this
new technology becomes ubiquitous.

You have to get on it because
I've seen my wife's broken heart.

Because she used to be able
to communicate with her dad.

And now she can't.

I don't know.

I wanted to just see
if that's interesting.

I don't know whether we might've
started off talking about this.

I don't even remember what it was.

Was it virtual tabletops or.

Alison: No.

I remember exactly what it was the
very software that we use to edit

these here, podcasts, Descript.

And so I am learning Descript so that
way Matt does not have to become the

one man show on the editing train.

I've watched him do it, but I
hadn't like actually put my toe in.

So the first thing that
happened is I wanted to create

like a backup, a fail safe.

And you were like, just do it.

There's versioning!

You're not going to break it.

There's that mentality that
everything is precious.

It's like I buy a beautiful new
journal and I don't want to write

in it because it's too pretty.

And I think I might ruin it, And
that's why did I buy the journal then?

Journals were not meant to
sit on a shelf and be blank.

And so that was what
started the conversation.

And then you were telling me some hotkeys.

I do not use keyboard
shortcuts in anything I do.

And I have a lot of developer friends, I
surround myself with you guys apparently.

And it drives them crazy, that I
move my mouse to where I needed

to go and click on things rather
than just hit, alt + option + Q.

That was how we started.

Cause you be, you.

If you're not willing to learn it,
you know, like there's going to

become a time where it could be
too late, not to go doomsday on us.

Matt: And I, that was a terrible example
from my point of view, because of course

you don't need to learn shortcuts.

Though I have seen you and
your first reaction be, "No.

nuh-uh, no."

Alison: i...I...I...

We didn't mean to do this.

This was a beautiful accident.

I think

That we've come full circle from
how we started talking, which was

around, like you had to work so hard
to get me into Buffy and Strahd and

other like horror adjacent things.

But once you get me there, it's

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: And it's almost the
same thing you know, you have to

work so hard to get me to try.

And then once I'm in, I'm all in.

Matt: Yes.

Yes.

The reason I wanted to bring it up was
just how different it is from me and my

incessant need to learn that new stuff.

And so I do not have a fear that I will
fall behind on the tech train necessarily.

I certainly don't have the energy
for as much stuff as I used to.

And I certainly I understand that
there will be generations that grab

on to these new devices, this new
technology faster and more, efficiently.

I see that happening and that's
just, that's human nature.

Um, One of the most inspiring
people that I knew was this fella

that lived in Chicago and he was
a fan of the band that I was in.

He found out that I was in Chicago.

And just tried and tried to meet with me.

And he ends up being one of the most
fascinating people I've ever met.

And he looks like a hobo.

He's 70 years old.

and I, I'm like almost scared sitting
down with him in this public place.

But I realized that he is just
a teenage 70 year old, right?

He doesn't take care
of himself physically.

He does a lot of drugs.

He started talking about virtual
reality and this is There's a lot

going on 10 years ago And, and
he did not ever want to let go.

And he told me.

Matt you.

You've got to keep using it,
because there's so many good things.

There's so many good
things that can happen.

Don't be afraid of it.

You can't break anything.

I was like, man, I need,
I want to live by that.

And I have, and I want to.

And so I feel like even loving
technology, just blossomed even more

thanks to having him in my brain.

And, anyway.

I just, I want to urge
anybody listening to this.

You can't break things as Alison said, and
number two, don't become like Lindsay's

dad, because it, it will make you sad.

I think it makes him sad.

I'm not saying this to like, Shake a
finger or anything, or, don't be like me.

I just wanted to discuss, like, why
do you think that is that for you?

Like, where does the impetus come from?

I know we talked about how your default.

comfort is rewatching things.

All of that's fine.

That's totally great.

But what do you think it is?

You've also talked about how You don't
want to be bad at something, but.

You're not though.

I mean, you as a person, you've got to
know that you're not bad at something.

So what do you think that,
what do you think that

Alison: I think I know exactly what it is.

And I, I think I can take it right
back to ADHD, which is when you're

at the beginning, you can't see
the end, and the total like brain

scramble and mind fuck that that is.

Matt: Yes.

Alison: That's why you know, like we've
talked about my anxiety around going

to new places, because I don't know
the steps involved, what the inside of

the room is going to look like, where
I'm going to need to be, how I'm gonna

hook up with whoever I'm there to see.

And yet it was all it takes is somebody
saying, Alison walk in and turn left,

you'll see a door, walk through it.

I'm in that room and that's it.

Anxiety done.

And I think it's very similar
to like pages and screens.

When I look at a blank page or screen,
or don't know what I'm doing with

Matt: Ah,

Alison: I do not have the mental
dexterity or whatever it is to

map out the directions myself.

And so it's just easier
for me to shut down.

Now there are probably other layers of
my personality that have nothing to do

with ADHD of like the asking for help.

Could somebody just show me?

And so one of the things that you
and I were talking about specific

to this is I now feel so far behind.

And that's another big thing is
that like ADHDers tend to just

shut down at a certain point.

There was a meme that came out a few
months ago and I remember like myself

and all my other fellow ADHDers were
like, does the world not feel this way?

And it was basically something along the
lines of I have a meeting at four o'clock,

which means that I need to, you know,
have this done by two o'clock, which means

that I have to have pushed all of those
things out by noon, which means that I

need to shower and get dressed now, but
it's already 11:30 so the day is done.

I should just go back to bed.

You know, And that's how, like,
if we don't stick to the schedule

we laid out for the day, I guess
neuro-typicals just get back on the track.

Right?

Like eventually it's like, okay, well
I missed that hour's worth of whatever.

But I'm still going to hop back
on the train at 11:00 AM and

we're like, nope, day's over.

Why bother.

Matt: My coach said that people with
ADHD often have an easier time beginning.

Not all the time, but you may be
able to open the app and get started.

And you may see the big picture and
you know what you want to do, you

know what the end result should be.

It's all the middle stuff
that tears us apart.

And it does create just buckets of
anxiety that is difficult to understand.

But it is the middle.

It's the middle every time.

Because I will always like dive
into something and go, okay.

Yeah, no problem.

And then I hit that point of I'm stuck.

I'm stuck.

It's terrible.

Alison: I can't get to the next step.

It's why people get frustrated.

We tend to have a lot of started,
but unfinished projects, because

something happens in the middle
that just takes us off the track.

And then there's this
attitude of why bother?

That's one of the most frustrating
things, you know, I think we've spent

the past few episodes talking about
some of this shiny, funny quirky, parts

of ADHD, but this is the part right
here that can be really debilitating.

Um, And it means that, you know, as
adults, and in life, we just have to

strategically pick who we align ourselves
with professionally, personally.

In friendships and romances
and things like that.

To make sure that there's balance and
we eventually can find the finish lines.

I think.

Matt: 1000%.

And I don't even know whether we've
talked about this on the podcast.

Our business, our team has
discovered something that gets me

personally through the starting part.

And the middle part.

And that is, you know, in
development, they call it pairing.

And that's what we're calling it too.

But, the crux of it is, you just sit
with someone else and do the work.

A lot of times you were working on
one thing together, like developers

will actually work on the same
lines of code for complexity.

And.

Evan is our designer.

I'm the developer.

So he's not helping me on that
kind of level, but simply him being

on the other side of something.

Like hearing him tapping away
at whatever he's working at has

changed the productivity completely.

Because.

If left up to me, a lot of times.

Unless it's something that I
am endlessly excited about.

I may not start it.

I may start and quit sooner than I should.

I may start and work on the wrong thing.

All kinds of other options, right?

All kinds of like little
side roads that I can take.

and so this is really great
because Evan will occasionally

say, what are you working on?

And then I can occasionally say, Hey,
I have a question about this, Designer.

And we tried this the other day
in editing this and you were

like, Wait a minute, you just.

There's no.

You don't turn on the camera?

You just sit there.

Who?

Alison: I'll tell you why.

I was surprised that we weren't
turning on cameras in that moment.

So in the non-development
world, and this is, we talked

about this a few episodes back.

This is thanks to TikTok, that I
know about this, this approach, this

technique is called body doubling.

I've also heard it called anchoring.

Where it is helpful to just
be in the presence of someone.

And so now there are online
services for body doubling, where

if you don't have anybody, college
students will use these websites.

And so you sign up for a time and
you're matched with a stranger anywhere

in the world and you'll log into zoom
and you put yourself on mute and you

do your work and they do their work.

And I think that's what I thought our
pairing was going to be, not so much

that I wasn't getting, oh, we just do
our work individually without talking.

It was more like, and this goes to
the different, like, learning styles.

I am a visual learner.

I am not auditory at all.

People get really frustrated with
me when I'm driving somewhere.

I don't have the sound on my GPS
cause hearing it doesn't help me.

You telling me how to do
something, doesn't get me anywhere.

I need an example.

I need to do it while
you watch me and say no.

put your mouse there.

And so I think that's why I was
surprised, but like I realized that

long before I knew that there was
a name for this coping mechanism.

I've literally been
doing this all my life.

When I need to get my house
clean, I will have a friend

come over and sit on the couch.

You don't have to do anything.

You can binge watch whatever you want to.

Your one job is to be a presence in my
living room, so I get my stuff done.

I've done that since college.

My friends call it, uh, they have
to come project manage for me.

So they are not doing anything along what
I'm doing, but even, you know, it's why I

think study halls are, big in high school
and college because it's, a group of

people not necessarily working together,
but doing the same often unsavory tasks

at the same time, strength in numbers.

And things like that.

So, I do I feel more productive.

And maybe that's, in part, because
we all live in different cities and

work alone, out of our home offices.

And so sometimes it's just nice to
convene with your coworkers and,

Matt: Yeah.

But I never liked going to an office.

I could see how that would work.

But when I went into an office,
with other developers, it was still

me alone working on my own thing.

There wasn't enough time or
enough bodies or enough people

to pair with, which is strange.

But then it was probably just me.

Alison: are always

People are always shocked when
they learn how much I love living

alone, and working, from home.

Are two things that were a part of
my life long before the pandemic.

I think people think by nature because
I'm a very talkative person, that I always

have to be stimulated by other people.

That's just not true.

But I know how to do it well, and
when it works, it works, which is why.

I agree with you completely.

I think pairing is.

A great way to get body
doubling, anchoring, anchoring

name we're going to put on

Matt: Yeah, it really works out.

I'll turn on the video for you.

Whatever, whatever is best for you.

Alison: Honestly so and paired,
and it was only over Slack's

audio, so no video involved.

I still liked it.

Matt: Okay.

Okay

Alison: First of all, I think
it's an accountability thing.

I got to get this done.

Matt's got to get his stuff done.

We're getting it all done together.

So there's that kind of unity
and, getting through these tasks.

And it's kind of like what you
were saying with you and Evan.

Even if you're not doing the exact same
work or experts in one another's fields.

Sometimes it's just nice to be like,
Hey, can you give me an opinion

opinion opinion this paragraph?

I this I just made this
graphic I just created.

It's a lot easier than me having
to send Evan a message and him

type out his, you know, no, no, no,
but this there use this this color

you

Matt: Right.

I am with you on that for sure.

Alison: So it's a meeting
without being a meeting

Matt: And it is, and it's shocking
how well it works for yeah.

Anybody that doesn't know about our,
or doesn't know how well it works.

It's shocking.

It doesn't make me want
to do the job anymore.

It doesn't, but that's the thing
is that oftentimes I can slip into

hyper-focus if I just have the
right impetus to get me there.

Again, hyper-focused doesn't always have
something to do with, I don't have to like

something to be hyper-focused on it, but.

Yeah.

Alison: In fact sometimes.

I get more hyper-focused
on things I don't like.

Because I'm also stubborn, So then
into the flow, you're like, no,

I just want this out of my life.

I want this project done.

I want this delivered.

I want to bill for it.

I want to move on from this thing.

Whereas If I'm, right now I'm
building out my first little mini

campaign to DM for some friends.

You can distract me from that any
time, because I know I'm going to want

to come going to want to love on it.

Matt: Right before you were saying
that I was thinking that I'd like

to try pairing with prep as well.

Alison: What do you mean?

Matt: Meaning.

dungeon master prep.

Which is,

Alison: I I thinking that before we even
got on to record record record like, what?

I think I need to do.

I think Matt and I need to pair
while I prep for this mini I

Matt: do too..

And the reason that I
would like to try it.

Is because I'm well aware that in
the world of Dungeons and Dragons

and specifically game master prep.

There's too many things that I like.

There is the world building idea.

There is the character development idea.

There is the technology idea.

And oftentimes one will
supersede the other.

As far as my focus and time,
and then one will suffer.

So I, even for something I know we
just said, I don't usually pair with

things that I love doing, and that's
also true, but I would like to try it.

I'd like to see what that would
be like for all the GM's to prep.

And how fun would it be?

To start a freaking
body doubling GM group.

Because.

You're not supposed to
distract the other person.

and you can it's.

It's a possibility.

But if you like set, little time timers.

So you took breaks and in those breaks,
you shared GM tips and tricks and stories.

Oh, God, that would be fun.

Alison: Time well-spent.

Matt: That would be so much fun.

Alison: I do wonder.

Like this even between you, me and Evan.

We've done pairing,
we've done body doubling.

I wonder if tripling.

Triading.

Whatever we would call it.

I wonder what would happen cause I
feel like once you get over two people,

the opportunity for interruptions
and distractions probably increases

exponentially with each addition.

Matt: I totally agree with you.

I feel like it could break
down if it's a triad.

A trio.

All the words that I'm
saying today are so weird.

Alison: I the one that
tried to make triad a verb.

I'll take, you're not on this

Matt: boom, boom, boom

Alison: you.

Matt: Um,

Alison: Try harder!

Matt: Try harder.

Alison: Triad harder.

Matt: Anyway.

To try to wrap that idea up.

I also want to say that I am
extremely, I always feel bad saying

that I'm proud of someone, but.

You

Alison: do hate saying that.

Matt: I do because I don't want it
to be construed as condescending.

And in this case, in this specific
situation, both with horror

movies, horror television shows.

Alison: hear that thunder?.

Matt: I did..

That I thought you had done that
on purpose because I said horror.

That would be cool if you did.

And then like these other things.

As long as you've got a friend.

To say, Hey, look, I'm here.

Not only will you not
break anything on your own?

I've been through this.

I know that.

Don't be afraid of this.

You did that for TikTok with me.

You're like, no.

I really liked TikTok
and it's not that bad.

And.

Yes, I still don't use
the app, but I see it now.

My first reaction was, nah, no
it's just another ding dang thing.

But I think if we if you have a friend
or groups of friends that say, look.

I got ya.

It's really great.

If you can just get over this little hump.

If you can get past the blank page.

Alison: Yeah, no, I think that 99% of our
friendship partnership and otherwise is

us pushing the other ones to do things
they would not naturally be inclined.

And therefore naturally wouldn't do.

And I appreciate that about you,
that you do not accept no from

any of us and say, Try harder.

Matt: Yeah.

I'm glad that you appreciate.

And don't curse my name.

You might cause my name first.

And Then.

Then.

Alison: Well, here's the thing is
that you usually can see to the

other side, like you don't push
me into things that are like,

Matt: Dangerous.

Alison: Organically, an antithesis to
everything I stand for, you're not.

Matt: Right.

Alison: And you've never
once forced fed me an olive.

We'll use tha t bad example.

Matt: Though, here's a
weird thing, Alison..

in the back of my mind, I
know that someday I'm going

to get you to like an olive.

The back of my mind.

I'm I want it

Alison: No way..

It's not going to happen
Matt, it's not going to

Matt: happen.

I'm going to, I'm going to,
I'm going to find a way.

Alison: It's just go ahead
and hang that one up.

I am, and I think I lean
optimistic more than pessimistic.

I tend to skew more like
realist than anything.

And so I rarely say no, and I rarely
say never, but that is one thing I'm

willing to go down swinging on a never
but everything else I'll be open to.

And, and, and so many
things that I do love.

You either introduced me to,
like, I was never vehemently

opposed to Dungeons and Dragons.

I just had never been really exposed to
it or had the opportunity to play it.

Matt: Yes.

Alison: So that's more introduction than
push, but other things have been just

a straight get in there ya chicken.

Matt: Okay.

I feel like this could be a cap
on this topic and the podcast.

You've said, why you got into this, I
know you said that a friend was the thing

that he had a group going, he was going to
start it and we had been talking about it.

But why do you, what do
you think made you turn?

Like you could have easily told Jeff.

No, no, no.

I'm not interested or you could
have said, my friends Matt

and Evan are going to play it.

So I don't really have the time.

What was it that twisted your arm to that?

At that point.

Do you remember like what makes Alison's
ADHD kind of kick in and say, okay.

no.

I'm going to give it a try.

Alison: I think that, and
we've talked about this before.

With things like Stranger Things
and otherwise it got a little

more mainstream in recent years.

So I was just more aware of it.

So there was always this curiosity and
I just never had a platform for it.

I never had anybody interested
in doing it with me, and

Jeff was willing to teach me.

I was going I'm I don't
know anything about it.

And he's like, I will sit
down with you and put.

a character sheet together, and then
we will have our first encounter

and then we will play a game and
you'll see, if you like it or not.

Matt: So for you, it really has
a lot to do with the instigator.

That's cool.

Alison: And I knew in the first I did not
want to stop playing our first session.

Our first session we
played for like six hours.

It was ridiculous.

Matt: I know, I know.

Alison: And I remember
that not wanting to end.

And then I couldn't wait until the
next Saturday and the next, and

that has, there is yet to be a time.

Everything else, man, I've burned out on
even things that I once was on fire for.

Matt: That's cool.

Alison: What made you say yes.

Matt: When, like when I was little?

Alison: What.

No, like with the, I know that you had
talked about wanting to be, get back into

it and you guys just hadn't had a way, but
it was not a hard sell for you or Evan.

When I was like,

My friend, Jeff has thinking
about Dungeons and Dra- and you

both were like, yes, absolutely.

When.

What do we need to know?

Matt: I think.

what I don't remember is why we started
talking about it so much, but we

definitely started talking about it
before the pandemic, but I don't know

why Evan and I started talking about
it, but I feel like there were episodes

of the BivBros Show and other things.

We were talking about it
all, we gotta do this.

We gotta do this.

Alison: At one point on BivBros Show did
want to go through like a, let's do things

as adults that we loved to do as kids.

You want it to like rewatch
movies and TV shows.

You want it to like replay games.

So it may have been that.

I don't remember how exactly it all
came together, but I think you're right.

You guys had been talking about it.

Jeff had been talking about it and then
we were all locked in indoors for what

we thought was going to be six weeks.

Matt: We just started thinking
about it all the time and I don't.

I wish I knew why I don't.

I certainly have people that I
respect and love that do things.

And then I'm like, Ooh,
I want to try that.

But as we discussed,

I also have this thing where I want to
try things that no one has ever tried.

To be the first one there, but, I think.

Yeah, but it was when Jeff
said, yeah, it's just, we had

been talking about it so much.

I was like, okay, dang.

I think that with D&D I was like,
yo, I really want to do this, but.

I know it's a lot of work to get started.

So we had this, in and we said, yes.

Alison: And we're just getting started.

Matt: And scene.

Yes.

Um, Well, how do you
feel about this podcast?

Alison: Done and done.

Checkmark.

How do you feel?

Matt: It's like therapy, free therapy.

Alison: It's like free.

I know that's exactly what it's like.

Matt: Thanks for podcasting with me.

Alison: Thanks for podcasting with me.

I will see you tomorrow to and Dragons.

Matt: I'm excited.

Wackow wackow wackow wackow

and that's the end.

Alison: Amazing.