Alison: And then we're,
we became best friends.

Uh,

Matt: And then, and you're like, I love
you, and Oh, I'm super comfortable now.

Are You Yeah.

Sarah: You could see my visual
spatial working memory issues.

Alison: I don't know what you're
talking about yet cuz we haven't

unfolded the assessment results.

Matt: Oh yeah.

All right.

Okay.

So first have to say, um, hi Alison.

Alison: There it is.

Hi, Matt, we can't, we can't
start a podcast without those two

words in exactly that inflection.

Matt: Hi Alison.

I'm very excited about today's podcast.

Because, today marks the second guest
that has ever been had on ADHd20,

which is a podcast that tries to find
the correlation of ADHD and RPGs.

Alison: Yes.

You know, I love this because it's season
two, episode two, second guest ever.

Matt: Oh my God.

Two, two.

Sarah: You, Do you know
my birthday is two, two?

Alison: No.

Sarah: It's February 2nd

Alison: Stop it.

Sarah: And I'm turning 44 this
year, which are multiples of two.

Alison: Oh my.

Okay, okay.

Okay.

Mind blown.

Show over.

Can't go on.

Sarah: That's it.

Everything's connected.

Alison: That's not even...

Matt: That is weird.

Alison: Everything,
Everywhere, All At Once.

Yep.

Matt: I I love it though.

Sarah: So happy they got nominated.

Matt: I know.

Me too.

Alison: I know.

Me too.

Matt: Do you wanna, you guys
wanna just like spend the entire

hour talking about that movie?

Everything Everywhere all At Once?

Yes.

Okay.

Alison: Let's be very ADHD and not, and
just avoid the task at hand completely.

And.

Sarah: We'll do it next time.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

I love it.

You know, we know who our beautiful,
intelligent, funny guest is.

Uh, our listeners just are
hearing this voice from beyond.

Uh, Sarah, please, please
introduce yourself.

Tell us, Tell us, you know,

Matt: What kind of topics do you like?

Sarah: Oh, friends.

I have an undergrad in musical theater.

I have a graduate degree
in special education.

I'm like really into love and not
like in the like, , surface love

that a lot of times people get
caught in, but like everything's

connect, like everything everywhere.

All at once.

Love.

Yeah.

You, you've all seen it.

Yeah.

That's real.

And I'm like trying to tap into
that in every conscious way I

possibly can and it really helps.

Alison: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: That doesn't tell
you very much about me.

Matt: It actually does.

That's actually a pretty
good intro to my friend.

So I, I have known Sarah
since we were both very young.

Uh, she is also a Winston-Salemite,
Winston-Salem, North Carolina, which

you call Winston if you're from there.

And, uh, the moment I remember is, we
had Krispy Kreme together and we were

all sitting outside and I was already
in the rock band, uh, at that moment.

And you guys, I think something Amy just
said, Hey, you wanna go to Krispy Kreme?

I was like, cool man.

I'd love Krispy Kreme.

Sarah: Amy was the coolest,
She is the, the coolest.

She's the coolest.

Yeah.

We used to, we were teenagers and
you were our favorite band, and we

would bake cookies for you before
the show and bring them back.

Like the nerdiest,
dorkiest you can think of.

Yeah.

Um, because we loved your art and
we loved you because of your art.

So that's, it's so, and it's
like, you know, Alison, how

you're like I was a fan first.

So, sitting here talking to y'all
is like, what's my life right now?

Alison: Mean, same.

I do say that often, that if I could
go back and explain to 19 year old

Alison what's coming in about 20 years,
she wouldn't believe me and I, I, I'm

guessing 19 year old Sarah either.

Sarah: No, It is the truth that like every
seven years, all our cells regenerate.

Yeah.

And we become a whole new being.

Yeah.

But our bio computers,
remember our old beings.

Yeah.

So there's a lot of disconnect sometimes
with people's, like emotional state

of being on reconciling that that
was like the old operating system.

Matt: Wow.

Sarah: Yeah.

you've upgraded, you've
ascended your new levels.

Alison: Something I'm actively
working on is how to assess

the changes that I wanna make.

But then also honoring your former
self for getting you that far.

So it's okay to say you were really
loud and really obnoxious for a

long time, and that's the way that
you protected yourself and that's

the way that you carried yourself.

But now is the time to start
listening to other people self and

not hate on the former, you know,

Sarah: yes,

yes.

Yes,

So when you're talking to yourself
in your head, it's, what am I

saying to myself both out loud?

I mean, if you talk out loud to
yourself like I do or to, to yourself

in your head like, oh, I'm so dumb.

I shouldn't have done that.

Stop that.

Do the work to stop that lovingly.

Don't be like, I'm so stupid.

Oh, I shouldn't say that.

I'm, ugh.

I'm so mad at myself.

Like it becomes this rolling ball down
the hill of I feel guilt and shame for

the thing that I'm trying to change.

And that does not help in
the ascension away from it.

Yeah.

So,

Matt: Because you're moving downwards.

Sarah: You're doing the work.

Alison Good Good for you.

Matt: Oh, she's doing the work.

Alison: And it starts, it starts
with setting the intention of,

I'm going to recognize when I do
it, queuing people to help you.

So Matt is one of my helpers.

Well, he will in a moment say,
I need to stop you right there.

That wasn't nice self-talk.

And then again, it's the learning,
so I said something mean to myself.

I'm not gonna harp, I'm
not gonna sit with that.

I'm just going to choose some different
words and keep moving forward.

And every time it does get a little
easier to the point where you used to

say, I'm so nervous, I'm so anxious.

So it's just rewiring myself instead
of saying, I'm so anxious about this,

to say I'm so excited about this.

It's the same feeling in my body.

I'm just am choosing a different
word for it actively by setting that

intention that I would notice when
I'm talking about being nervous.

Sarah: Absolutely genius.

You're genius.

Alison: I'm so ready to
to get nerdy with all of

Matt: Yeah.

I, I don't wanna stop it, but but,
we do need to, Roll some dice.

Alison: Sarah, I, I think you
should, I think you should get the

first roll today and remind me you
have or have not played any D&D?

Sarah: I've been begging
Matt, but he's busy.

Matt: I, I'm busy.

but but

Sarah: I'm busy, too.

It's okay.

Matt: But one of my themes to, to your
point, is to play more this year and

I've, I have, uh, I've been talking.

I've been, I've been
trying to work it out.

Anyway, these are the, the ones
that you can choose from for, so

while you do that, I'll, I'll finish
the story of the weirdness of then

how we got reconnected as adults.

Through the, this is gonna actually fit
into the D&D world, which is, we met again

through The Chicago improvisational scene.

And then we were like, oh
my God, I know you What?

And then, and now we're neighbors.

Sarah: We're neighbors!

Matt: It's, it's a beautiful story.

Sarah: It's beautiful.

Matt: It's a gorgeous story.

Sarah: it's really wonderful.

Okay.

Matt: Oh, 65,

Sarah: 65's good.

Alison: Let's go.

Oh, interestingly enough, so this is
actually the question Matt had last week.

Sarah: Synchronicities.

My goodness.

Alison: So your question is for the
second time, if you could live in any

fantasy location, where would you choose?

Sarah: I mean, like
Middle Earth, look at it.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: There it

Sarah: Look at it it's got everything, yo.

Matt: it has great terrain.

Sarah: Or where do they come,
where do the elves come from?

Alison: So let's, yes, and this, so you
live in Middle Earth, and I think you

just answered the question for me, but
do you wanna be an elf are you a hobbit?

Or like, are you a dwarf?

Are you

Sarah: Totally an Mm-hmm.

But a nice one.

Not a

Alison: You're totally an elf.

Sarah: Like, a nice one.

Alison: You're such a wise, magical,
ethereal being that I'm buying all of it.

I think you might actually be an elf.

Sarah: I'm not gonna go full Grimes
or anything and get those ears, but

Matt: Bless your heart,

Sarah: Grimes,

Alison: Oh, the nerd force is
strong with this one and I am here.

Matt: Oh, man.

Sarah: Good.

Good, um, like seriously, I'm in nature.

When I'm like, what matters?

Nature.

When I'm like, I can't, have
dying emotionally, I need help.

And I know that if I go on a
walk, I'm like, oh, I'm fine.

It's crazy.

If I could be a doctor, I
would be like, what's wrong?

Okay, If you can go on a walk.

Matt: Uh, Alison, I'm going to
have to pause for a second and,

and get the d100 link from you.

I, you know what, what, I, need to do
is I need to add it to Slack as a hot.

I'm gonna do it right as we do this.

Yeah, it's in a big, so if I
copy the link and then I go to,

uh, text expander that's good.

And then I'm gonna close it.

So now when I Do

Sarah: I do wanna point out that
like how Matt is talking through

his processes right now is playing
to, I mean, his strength, which

is why y'all's scores are so good.

Matt: Oh, spoiler

Alison: so good.

I will say Matt and I are
nothing if not self-aware.

Like we have definitely honed
processes that work for us and figured.

Sarah: That is the beauty of the
self-awareness is as soon as you've

like our onion selves, as soon
as you've uncovered one level of

awareness, there's like whole new
ones that you're like, oh, Oh!

And the, the trending towards
awe and wonder as opposed

to guilt and shame is where.

Alison: Oh, trending
towards awe and wonder.

I wanna bottle up the way that
I felt when I heard you say that

for the first time and remember it

Matt: Good.

Sarah: That should be on my gravestone
trend towards awe and wonder.

Alison: Trending towards awe and wonder.

Okay.

Uh, I am a,

Matt: Thirty one.

If you could give Matt, Alison,
or our guest a superhero name,

what would it be and why?

We've never gotten this one.

Alison: You just, you
just set us up for it.

Sarah, I, I officially dub
thee "Awe and Wonder Woman"

Sarah: What I leveled up.

Alison: I mean, that just

Sarah: Things vibrating.

Matt: Level up.

That was so good.

Sarah: Fireworks!

Matt: That was so good.

Alison: That was, I was, that was all you.

You set that right up and
I just spiked it over the

Sarah: net.

Perfect.

We're best friends.

Matt: I know it.

God bless.

Alison: it.

Sarah: I told Matt, I was like,
I'd be really good friends

with Alison when I meet her.

Matt: Yep, she did say that.

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

.And here we are.

We're dancing.

Uh, okay.

Alison: on,

Matt: Oh yeah.

And I'm going to of
course use my new dice.

64.

Sarah: 64.

That's one less than 65.

Alison: 64.

I love this question for you specifically,
Matthew Bivins, aside from D&D,

what's the nerdiest thing about you?

Yeah.

There's no one thing, but pick
your favorite nerdy thing about

yourself since you have so many.

Matt: Well, yeah, it has to.

it has to.

be.

I mean, I, I guess show of hands how
many people watch videos on YouTube about

Obsidian or Notion or Airtable for fun?

Sarah: I watch about obsidian the stone
because I'm into rocks, so you know,

Matt: Well, that would also be
nerdy I think rock crystals are far

cooler than PKMs, but I think, um,
that's probably the nerdiest thing.

Would, would you, would you agree.

I would agree.

Okay.

So,

Alison: Well, I, I think that
now we get to dive right on

into the meat and potatoes.

Matt: So here, I'll, I'll
give a little backstory here.

Sarah has been working uh, very hard
just, on all the things that she's

mentioned before, just, uh, self, wise.

And, in doing so, there's a new job.

There was a time where she was in a job
that she deeply loved and was not giving

her what she needed, and she moved on.

And I think it's it's, still
a process and a search almost.

But I tell you one thing, dude, you are
on the right track of 1000% like this one.

So nice dude.

This one and that one
actually pointing to Alison.

I think y'all, the two of you absolutely,
are, you know, most, grab the bull by

the horns moving forward, changing the
things about that they, that they did

not love and moving forward and better.

And Sarah too.

And, she has a job where she helps people.

And especially neuro spicy people.

Sarah: That's my job.

Matt: And uh, so we're, we're rooting
for her to dive more into that.

Maybe even on a more personal level.

Sarah: I have three personal clients now.

Yes.

Matt: Three.

Three.

Sarah: three.

I had one last week and now I have three.

Alison: That's amazing.

I mean, come

Matt: it is amazing.

And through work

Sarah: It's manifestation too, Alison.

It is.

It's just, you're like,
it's happen, it's happening.

You're like, in awe and wonder of it.

You're like, oh, I'm do, I'm doing this.

Alison: And the more it happens, the
better you feel and the better you

feel, the higher your vibration and
the higher your vibration, the more

that you're pulling in all of your
hopes and dreams and magic and so

Matt: Awe and Wonder Woman!

So when you got this newer job

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Matt: You had access to this,
cognitive assessment report.

Yes.

And, uh, this, this report,
put out by Cambridge.

Sarah: it's a Computerized
standardized assessment

Matt: Yes.

Sarah: Of cognitive functioning.

And it's by Cambridge Brain Science,

Matt: Brain Science, yes.

Sarah: Cambridge did all of the
norming I mean, test stuff is so nerdy.

If you wanna get a master's degree,
you can just go into assessments.

But I I wanted y'all to take it cuz
I've been listening to the podcast and

I was like, oh, these are crazy awesome
nerdy adults that probably love data.

And when you can get data about your,
what your, brain is doing, because

we're not always conscious of that.

It can be very powerful and it can be
like aha moments of like, oh yeah, this

totally connects to the way I do this.

And it's again, bringing another layer
of that onion of awareness and power.

Power!

Matt: I love it.

The funny thing, of course is that you
had to send me a link to this test three

times because, Well, when you click on
the link, I was always excited to do it.

But it, says, this is gonna take
you 45 minutes and you gotta be,

you gotta lock yourself down into a
basement and don't talk to anybody.

And you know, and I, and I
said, okay, I can do that.

But then it's just hard for me to sit
down and actually do it until I decided

to body double pair with my friend Alison.

And then we got it done.

And, uh, it is fascinating.

And if, and you, you gave me
all kinds of warnings like, Hey,

Sarah: I did, I was annoying to Matt.

Matt: You're gonna get
stressed out like this.

Sarah: it's okay.

I just took it again.

And I wanna tell you this, it
depends like the day, the time of day

Alison: Nothing about my brain
likes a standardized test.

I don't think that's neuro spicy.

I just think that's
human nature, by the way.

So Matt and I, at the same time,
we, we got onto, a Slack huddle.

We both went on mute so we
couldn't hear or see each other.

Cause we got this, you know, warning that
you can't be distracted while you do this.

You have to shut everything down.

And immediately I hate it.

Like I can feel, I'm not a very
grounded in my own body person.

I, a lot of therapists have,
not liked this about me.

They're like, how do you
feel in your body right now?

And I'm like, what does my
body have to do with my brain?

Let's keep talking about
my thoughts, right?

So like it, but in my body, I can feel the
anxiety rising, like lava into my throat.

And I, and I hated it with
every ounce of my being.

Except for, I knew that Matt was on the
other side of the mute button feeling

the same way, and there was some level
of like, we're in this together and

there's a reason that we're doing this.

And that is what got me
through the brain assessment.

Sarah: What incredible feedback.

like at any part of a test, even
like the how you're prepping or how

you feel about it are like huge data
points that are not usually talked

about in standardized assessments
like when they give you the report.

Matt: Interesting.

Sarah: It's very technical.

Alison: Yep.

Sarah: Oh man.

I was like, getting ready for the podcast.

I was like, how am I
gonna talk about this?

Matt: Yeah.

Sarah: Um, especially because I
had asked Alison if she wanted the

results before, and she was like, no.

Reveal, reveal on the podcast.

And I was like, yes, definitely draw.

I love it.

Uh, the drama.

And then I was like, wait a
minute, because, I would never, as

a professional sit down with two
people and give friends and give

them their scores publicly together.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

Oh, I don't care about that for sure.

Sarah: Um, and I I, didn't think
y'all are doing this podcast to bring

people into the fold and like show
vulnerability and talk about it,

which helps, it helps everybody to
feel like I'm not, I'm not alone in

these things that I feel like About.

There's other people that experience that.

Yeah.

Maybe in different ways,
but we're same boat.

Yeah.

So, I like that.

Alison: By the way, I will
mention I, because I, I feel like

I was just very negative about

Sarah: It was!

Alison: Test, even though I'm, I'm loving
all this, that it's, it's, brought us

together, but I love an assessment.

I am an Enneagram seven.

I am somewhere between a D
and an I on a DISC assessment.

I am E N F P . I am a Woo in Gallup.

Like I, we can sit here all day and talk
about all the different assessments.

I love 'em.

I love it.

Love it, love it, love, love it.

Matt: I don't understand
anything that Alison just said.

So maybe that's the
nerdiest thing about her.

Sarah: It was wonderful.

I did.

I got it.

Okay, good.

I'm like, oh yeah, I feel the same.

like, when I was taking the test,
and I feel the same about the data

is like, Ooh, okay, I need this.

Matt: Well then give give Alison
exactly what she needs for this.

I want to see her sparkle in the
unveiling of all of these answers.

Sarah: So I don't wanna be too
long, but I wanna say that I want

to put forth a little bit of my
feelings about standardized tests.

I was a teacher for 10 years
and part of the reason that

I was like, I cannot do this

Alison: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: For kids with special needs.

Yeah.

I cannot do this, right, is because
standardized tests are the only

measure that they do of growth.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

.
Sarah: And you're like, this kid,
executive functioning wise, has grown.

incredible amounts.

It does not show on this
particular standardized test.

And a standardized test, like any,
informal or formal assessment is

just literally one pop of time.

What is your holistic being

Matt: Right.

Sarah: Functioning at that moment?

So you can't take it as an absolute,
again, the fluid, the flow, the fluid.

We're not, we're not ever static.

That's how I know we're in the Matrix.

None of this real.

Matt: I'll also say it's kind of
like writing a song or, setting up

a session in, in the game where it's
like that moment of time and people

say, oh, you wrote that song about me.

No, I didn't.

I wrote the song about a moment.

Sarah: This is all,
everything's connected.

And what I wanna say is that besides the
ones that you're overdeveloped in, so

you both have above average subscores
that it's a huge celebration because

A, all of your scores, even the lower
ones, are within the average range.

So none of your I know.

There there it is.

And I should have had like, more
aplomb, these like you're average.

But here is the other thing
I, and I have to read this.

Since you have both been officially
diagnosed with ADHD and have been working

both unconsciously and consciously
for your entire lives to build the

strategies to aid you in functioning, I
would say that both of your outcomes are

like, incredibly positive in general.

Oh, you've worked hard to be functioning
within the average for your gender and age

range, and that alone is to be celebrated.

So if we,

Matt: Wow.

Sarah: Didn't talk about
the rest of this at all.

Didn't dive in.

It's just a huge celebration period.

we have to celebrate this y'all

And we're done.

End of episode.

your, you're average.

Matt: That's so informative.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Great.

Sarah: Which I hope is
good to hear because again,

Matt: it is

Sarah: I like, felt the same

about my test scores.

Alison: One, one of the, um, the
topics that I, I need to research

more on, and, uh, understand
better is this, the rejection

sensitive dysphoria aspect of ADHD.

I was feeling it hard taking the test,
you know, I'm like, I'm, I'm dumb.

Like this is the point where
Sarah's like, it's so bad.

I don't even wanna tell you about it.

And Matt's like, I can't be your
friend anymore, uh, from a dumb

standardized test, you know,
,like, that's where my brain.

And, and where I've grown is
understanding my brain's gonna have

the thoughts that it wants to have.

I can't stop those, but it's how I
choose to respond and say, you know

what, actually, so hearing I'm completely
average is best news ever cuz I

Sarah: And you're not completely average.

and I didn't hit that hard enough.

We like celebrated the average.

But you both have scores that
are in the above average range.

because there's 12 sub tests, I decided
to break it down like this, y'all.

I picked the top three of each of yours?

And then I picked the bottom three and
I aggregated the data, which is great

because y'all have many similarities
and of, of course, differences.

But I was like, let's focus on the
similarities for talking about strengths

and how to build up the, the lowest area.

Literally for all of us All
three of us scored, scored the

lowest on the same subsection.

Matt: Really?

Wow.

Sarah: And y'all scored
the exact same score.

.
Matt: Wow.

Weird

Sarah: But I don't wanna start with low
because that's the other thing is Sure.

A lot of times, uh, standardized
tests are like, you're fine.

You're fine.

Except for this, you're
really bad at this.

Matt: Yeah.

Sarah: And it's like, no, the
first, we have to spend a lot of

attention on what is above average.

Because your strengths are what
you use to build up the areas

where you, those are the wins.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

So, you have to think of this
test as your character generation.

Like rolling dice for your
character's attributes.

Okay.

I was like, oh, this, is great.

Okay.

And you're born with those.

So it really is like rolling.

You're like, you don't have a choice.

you roll the die and that's
what your your attribute is.

But your strategies are like your magic
ring or sword that give you the plus.

So, and a magic ring or sword
that would work for one particular

character might not work for another.

And that's the same with strategies.

Matt: Yes.

Sarah: Is we, we can share strategies
and it's like, that's great.

Let me try it.

Well, that one doesn't really work for me.

It's me looking.

Matt: Sometimes you have to attune.

Sarah: Yes.

Attune.

Yes.

Okay.

I'm a nerd.

Okay.

Alison: I love it.

Sarah: Okay.

So I'm gonna start with, uh,
Alison and your top three scores.

. your verbal reasoning is as good
as, or better than 86% of the

population this was normed on.

That's huge.

It's really, really high.

Alison: A, and this was the
only one that I was like, when I

Sarah: This is, this

Alison: I got this one.

I, I knew what this one was
measuring, and that I nailed it.

Sarah: it speaks to your,
again, self-awareness of your

strengths is so, is so important.

Alison it's what's helping All the
growth and inner work that you're doing.

The grammatical reasoning subtest.

I'm gonna explain it real quick
when y'all were taking it.

This is the test that had a circle and a
square, and you had to put true or false.

And it would say this, the circle
is smaller than the square.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And you had to put true or false.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And so it shows that you are
incredibly good at the ability to quickly

understand and make valid conclusions
about concepts expressed in words.

So, Alison that was your top toppest one.

The next one.

is kind of this one of all of
the subtests, cuz there are 12.

And it's so, it's so strange when you're
like, wow, This is one of the best ones.

this is great.

But I knew, this is the other
part, I was like, oh yeah, I

can tell this about Alison.

She comes into the podcast
and is like, we're doing this.

This is now part of how we're building
this This is built, and it's this way.

And you're, you're building
a structure, right?

You're building a routine.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

,
Sarah: Which is beautiful and so good.

Deductive reasoning, you're in the 72nd
percentile, deductive reasoning is logic.

You're really good at logic.

The next one is working memory,
and that was the 63rd percentile.

You're very good at holding.

stuff in your short term memory to be able
to apply it to your deductive reasoning.

And you're probably using your verbal
reasoning to strengthen all of that.

So those are your top three.

The lowest three, which I will
reiterate are still within the average.

So it's like nothing to be
like, oh, the lowest three are

visual, spatial, working memory.

And that is a measure of the
ability to remember information

about objects in space.

This relates directly to the example you
were giving about your body not being a

thing when you're working in your brain.

And Matt, I'm gonna jump

the boundary I've made and be
like, Matt, yours is also the

lowest, it's the same as hers.

Exactly.

And you, I know you've talked
about like bumping into stuff

and, and feeling clumsy.

And that is directly related to
this area, and it's the lowest one.

Meaning that y'all have
already to be in the average.

You all already do work to function within
the average of this range, but it is low.

And knowing that, I'm gonna tell
you that's also my lowest area.

Alison: Yay.

Sarah: I started to look at, uh,
the other test that I've given and

be like, is this typically a like
really low area for people with ADHD?

And it's true.

It is.

Matt: Wow.

Sarah: Matt, your top three scores first
was working memory, 83rd percentile.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: So you can, you have
that information and can

use it like adept quickly.

Wonderful.

Matt: Interesting.

Working.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Your verbal reasoning.

82nd percentile.

So very high, like in, in sync with Alison

Matt: Okay.

So that, ha that obviously has nothing
to do with, uh, uh, uh, stumbling

over words or I, as long as I, get
to the point, then it's going to

be, the reasoning itself is sound.

Even if as it gets out of my mouth
it's not clear, concise, uh, and so on.

And.

Sarah: Yeah.

Matt: Okay.

Good.

Sarah: Yes.

Everything that you just said,

Matt: Everything I just barely said.

Sarah: Your third area
is response inhibition.

And that is the ability to put to the
side things that aren't relevant to

the task that you are focusing on.

Matt: Whoa.

Alison: One of the things that Matt
is great at is knowing that he's not

good at that and like, and stopping it.

So I will try, I will try to
do the work that I'm doing and

listen to you and fail at both.

Matt will just block me out and be like,
I I'm not listening to you right now.

I, I'm only,

Matt: That's very new.

Sarah: You have, you can see
the outcome of your work.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Right there.

Yeah.

And it's like really gratifying to
be I'm bad at this, but look, I'm,

I'm like literally using strategies.

Matt: Wow.

Sarah: So Let me pause and be
like, , how do you, how do you feel?

What's your reactions?

Matt: Well, I was wondering if,
Well, just like, just because

this is the intersection of ADHD

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

,
Matt: and you know, Dungeons & Dragons.

Mm-hmm.

So the, the two, I'll just, we'll
just go the two highest for me.

Working memory and verbal reasoning.

There's three that kind of pop out.

There's, there's a Charisma score, an
Intelligence score, and a Wisdom score.

Now, those are very super broad.

Would you say, Alison, you could
probably have the, the working memory

attribute, but I wonder if, if one
of them might be considered Charisma.

Oh.

Or would you say no?

Or would you say more Wisdom and
more Intelligence and Wisdom is more,

Alison: Intelligence is knowing
that a tomato is a fruit.

Wisdom is knowing not to put it
in a fruit salad is the way that

I was trained to do these scores.

Matt: Say, say that.

one more time.

Alison: intelligence is knowing
that a tomato is a fruit.

Wisdom is knowing not to
put it in a fruit salad.

Sarah: Amen.

Unless you know it might

Alison: So intelligence
is more like learned book.

Smart wisdom is more common sense.

Uh, yeah, exactly.

I I would put verbal reasonings
straight into Charisma though

because of your, because charisma
is where persuasion lives.

It's where intimidation lives, it, all
of those different things where you

can use your verbal reasoning to both
get yourself into pickles and back

out of them, which I think Matt and

Sarah: Yes.

And socially, it makes you very
socially, adept no matter how you're

feeling about social experiences.

Mm-hmm.

It makes you it makes you adept at them.

Alison: It's it's masking.

Matt: It's masking.

Alison: Even if we're having
shitty days, like other people will

have no idea because we've gotten
so good at reading the room and

adapting ourselves to it, instead
of expecting people to adapt to us.

Matt: So working memory would
then be, that would be closer

to intelligence, right?

Cause that's not as emotional.

Sarah: And they're all
connected, like working memory.

Matt: That's why it's Not a one to one

Sarah: With deductive reasoning, because
you need all those pieces to make

logical choices about planning and into
the way you're going to move forward.

Matt: Interesting.

And then another high one for you.

AK was, was it?

Sarah: Working memory.

That's the thing.

Oh, that, that was the other thing.

Working memory.

Deductive reasoning Were your high ones.

Matt: High charisma, high intelligence.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

.
Matt: What is that?

Warlock.

What would they

Sarah: Cleric?

No, clerics aren't very Charismatic.

Is that true?

They yeah.

Matt: They don't need to be.

Sarah: But they're high intelligence

Matt: They are high intelligence.

They need, they need a lot of Wisdom.

Sarah: do

Alison: honestly.

Paladin.

Matt: Paladin?

Sure.

Alison: Paladin could go high
Wisdom, high Intelligence, but

you could absolutely do a build of
high Charisma, high Intelligence.

Matt: Paladin.

Alison: And, and that's the other
thing too, is that high Charisma

doesn't have to mean likable.

Matt: And and that is the class that I've,
I think that you would be in real life.

Paladin.

There's just something, there's
something about how, how passionate you

get about, things, and that to me is
what, that to me is what paladins are.

Sarah: Passionate.

Matt: Passionate, certainly
the charismatic part.

Okay.

I like

Alison: The, the ultimate fan girl.

Matt: Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

Tell me a little more about
visio spatial processing again.

Sarah: Oh goodness.

And this is where I was like, okay,
I need to have good, notes on this

visual spatial working memory.

Okay, so it means you're a
strong, maybe visual learner.

Okay.

But not great at, The,
processing means that, okay.

I'm I'm trying to put it in the
most real example as possible.

So if you have a, a mess in front of you

Matt: Uhhuh.

Sarah: You, you realize it's a mess and
you could have a plan for fixing it.

Mm-hmm.

But the working memory part
makes that challenging.

So, you feel strong.

You realize there's doom piles, okay.

You could you have strategies for that?

Your working memory is,
there's a doom pile.

I gotta do this.

And the doom pile sits.

Matt: Oh my God.

Sarah: So I, I, said this for all for
all of us, since this is our lowest

score of the visual spatial memory
is this can be reasons for your mess.

Your doom piles physical
organization of items and clumsiness.

Matt: Wow.

Alison: That

Sarah: Tracks I know.

Alison: And it's why like, I've
had many conversations with my more

neurotypical friends about my mess.

You know, cause they,
they don't understand.

They're Like, just, just clean it
just, and like, I don't, I need

somebody both to pair with me.

Like I need somebody
physically in my space.

And in some ways I need somebody
to show me because I'm such

a visual learner, right?

I need you to show me, cuz I don't
know I don't know how to do this.

But I also think about this in the
application of why I have taught myself

that I am bad at art all these years.

Cuz I see it in my brain and I
have no, there's, I've always

said there is a connection
missing from my brain to my hand.

So I can see the thing that I wanna
create and what comes out is not good.

I can't draw a stick figure sometimes.

And that's,

Sarah: That's one of the, it it
is, it's directly I, cuz I was like

visual spatial, working memory is
what we all want to improve in.

So I, I went and found a bunch
of strategies and one of them is

to take up art, start painting,
start drawing, start practicing.

That's the thing is, and
it's, it just is logical.

This will go to your deductive reasoning,
Alison, is that your brain is a muscle and

if you want to improve it, you have to.

Matt: Work out.

Sarah: Consciously practice that.

You can't just be like, oh, I'm
putting a lot of attention on

it, but not doing the thing.

you have to do the thing
to grow the muscle.

Alison: Yeah.

We have talked at length about how if
I am not instantly good at something,

I want nothing to do with it.

And, and art is the prime example of
this where I, I don't see instant lift.

Sarah: Your needle doesn't move fast
enough and you're like, this is worthless.

I need to, I need to focus on
something where I can move that

needle, but those are the spaces you

Alison: And, apparently, I could be off
base on this, but I, I remember somebody

in one of our earliest episodes leaving
a comment saying, this is more prevalent

in women, like the, the pressure to get
it right, to be good, to be perfect.

And so when we are not, I don't know
if that's the rejection sensitive

dysphoria kicking in or what it is
we're, we are as women more apt to

leave it behind and go back to something
that we do feel more adept with.

Sarah: Absolutely.

Matt: Wow.

Sarah: It's wild.

Matt: I love, I love this list
that you have nine ways to improve

visual, spatial working memory.

Sarah: And see, I'm not a genius.

I just know how to look up the wonderful
research that people have been doing

on this and like my past experiences
and put them together and be like this.

This is what we do.

Lifehack.org.

Okay.

Number one, move your body.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: Take a dance class.

Take a workout class.

Martial arts.

So take up painting or drawing.

Matt: Okay.

Sarah: Alison, do it.

Alison: I don't know if I told anybody
about this, but my mom, but I had this

idea kind of around Christmas time.

I need to, I need to act upon it
how ADHD of me, I want to get a

typewriter, an old typewriter, and
I want to create little micro poetry

Matt: Yes,

Alison: And then take
pictures of that and like put

Sarah: Yes.

Alison: Like that's what
I want to, to create.

So how on brand of me did I want
to create art, but with words.

Sarah: But it's, it's exactly what,
what all of us should do is figure

out those strong parts and use them to
pull up the parts that we want to grow.

Mm-hmm.

And that's exactly what you just said.

So mixed media are even like
cutting them out, putting 'em,

taking a picture, all of it.

Like even the graphic
design portion of it.

Yeah.

Alison: And I have to give,
Evan credit where credit is due.

Wanting to push on that as Evan is a
vastly talented artist, graphic designer.

So I went to him a few weeks
ago and said, okay, I've kind

of got some downtime work wise.

I'd like to work on graphic design.

And so he has every morning reminded
me to do my studies, which is

huge cuz I need that consistency.

And he has been my rock for it.

And you know, then, you know, like waits
until I tell him I'm done with my day's

lessons, asks me what questions I have.

He's asked me to teach him things
knowing that like my teaching

will reinforce my learning.

Like so find you and Evan Bivins,
everybody who is going to support you and

pair with you in this very specific way.

I'm making Sarah

Sarah: It's beautiful.

beautiful?

Alison: are

Sarah: I love it.

Yes.

You want that for everybody Yeah.

You want everybody to set up
little communities for yourself.

Where you have you both give that
and do you have It from them?

And it's beautiful.

It is making me cry.

Don't look at me.

Matt: Okay.

I won't look at you.

what else you got Get I
don't like the next one.

Sarah: I know.

Matt: I don't like the next one.

Sarah: Of course, you don't like it
because it pushes against that area

that you don't feel comfortable with.

Ditch your gps and use a map.

Yeah.

Alison: Absolutely.

Sarah: Yeah.

Both of you're like, no f no , but.

I mean, and I'm not saying that's
very like black and white binary

of like the get rid of it, but
like maybe once in a while.

Matt: No, you're right.

Sarah: I'm gonna get a map of
this museum I've never been to

and go try to follow Mm-hmm.

. Okay.

Little by like, that's how you
think of attacking these things

is like, I don't wanna do that.

Yeah.

But like, what part of it can you do
to grow that you feel comfortable with?

The next one y'all are gonna like,
yeah, it's it's play video games,

Tetris being like the, example that
they gave of the visual spatial planning

of this was gonna fall down here.

And go here.

But, uh, games in general where
you have a map and a board and

different characters moving around.

Yes.

D&D is, is helpful for growing this area.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Think so that's,
and that's the genesis.

Woo.

Sarah: So I can tell you, you all
are genius because you started this

podcast and that it's, it's right.

You're correct.

Do it.

Everybody play D&D right now.

Another one is 3D puzzles
or Legos or models.

Matt: Okay.

Sarah: Are helpful for building that
area, working with brain teasers.

Specifically ones involving patterns
like Sudoku Build stuff like IKEA

furniture or like again with Legos,
if you're not gonna get into buying

furniture and filling your house with it.

Cause you built

Matt: Yes.

That is

Sarah: Read books with lots of action
and perhaps maps that you have to think

about the characters moving around in.

So think, think Lord of the Rings.

Like, oh, where is where is this
Where are they traveling to?

Okay.

Least like, and in conjunction with that,
they said watching a movie that has a lot

of action like Star Wars and then going
over where the different scenes went to.

Mm-hmm.

are helpful.

Okay.

Yeah.

And learn and practice an instrument.

Matt: That one is very interesting to me.

Learn and practice an instrument.

Was i, does that mean that I was
inherently drawn to trying to improve my

visual spatial by learning instruments?

Sarah: Well, the wonderful thing is music
is inspiring and then that's the thing

is like, I don't know, I was drawn to
theater, I was dyslexic and the theater

helped me become a better reader.

Matt: Interesting.

Sarah: Like build my language.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

.
Sarah: And I don't, there's
something also to, to be said about

this that I was gonna wait till
later, but I'll say it right now.

Magic.

Your brain is freaking magic.

There are things that we don't understand

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: That are just like, how could
two of us with looking at the areas

where we struggle the most and then
just naturally have chosen things

Matt: mm-hmm.

Sarah: that are gonna build that up.

Alison: Matt, you've, written a blog
about that in the far and distant past.

Like not only did you play
instruments, but it's why you

were a multi-instrumentalist.

It was your ADHD serving you
to kind of pick things up and

it at least become proficient.

How very Bard

Matt: Right?

Yeah.

Alison: It's the, jack of
all trades, master of none

Matt: Yes, Yes.

That's interesting.

So I am not a master of
any one of the instruments.

There is always a point where
I, not for boredom, simply

because I wanted more and more.

I feel like maybe what this
is really saying is learn

and practice one instrument.

Sarah: Pick one that really
inspires and interests that's

the other thing is motivation.

When you, when you have ADHD and you
can get into the hyperfocus, you can

really work on building the area.

But the funny thing is, Matt, I was like,
oh, of course Matt does that already.

So this is so interesting because
we're adults and we took this test,

and it could be that all of us started
like in the way low below average.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: And the work we have been doing.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

All the things here, like,
reading the books, playing D&D,

playing the instruments have
gotten us to just within average.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: All that work we've been doing
has brought us up from really struggling

with it to like being able to function.

Matt: Yeah.

Sarah: And you want to, all of us,
everybody wants to, be like above average.

Let's get up there.

But like, you have to celebrate when
you start, like in, the mud and you like

pull yourself up to like sitting in a
chair and you're like, but I wanna run.

And you're like, okay,
but you were in the mud.

Okay.

Matt: Right.

Alison: At ADHd20, we
celebrate mediocrity.

Sarah: Hard.

Celebrate hard.

Celebrate it.

Hard.

And reach goals.

Like, we've all got so many goals.

it's the process of sitting
with, somebody Yeah.

And really listening And saying,
okay, this is where you are.

this doesn't work for you.

You love this.

Let's find something together.

Matt: Right.

Sarah: That is sustainable and
works for you gets that needle

moving, which makes you feel good.

It empowers you.

You're like, I can I can do this.

Matt: I want everyone that ever listens
to this podcast, this episode to

take, to be able to take this test.

I really do.

I do, too.

And I know that they can't, but however,
Sarah, if they wanted to work with you, as

a person and to, to glean your knowledge
and delight and joy and excitement and,

and, experience, How, would they get in
touch with you to start that relationship.

Sarah: Oh my gosh, that's so nice of you.

Cuz I am trying to build that
because I have ADHD, I have been

focusing on my jewelry business.

Cosmic Octopus Creations.

Ooh.

and just was, have been building
and focusing a lot on that.

But now I'm shifting to the coaching,
mentoring, executive functioning and

I probably will eventually change
this, but you can find me online.

Sarah Mobley, I'm all over those things.

Okay.

And then My email, which I'll give
out is AlbinaTritina at gmail.com.

It's spelled crazy.

So A-L-B-I-N-A-T-R-I-T-I-N-A.

And if you're like, what the hell is that?

Matt: What the hell is that?

Sarah: It is my great-great
grandmother's name.

Mm-hmm.

. And she's buried in the
cemetery up the street.

Matt: That's right.

That's right.

From your Chicago kin, right?

Sarah: Didn't know.

Bought a house close to my
great-great grandmother's grave.

So many things similarly with
y'all, I am all about figuring

out this thing together.

Yeah.

In, in accordance and community
with others and, and saying,

you're great the way you are.

Whatever you wanna do.

Yeah.

You're gonna be great at that too.

Yeah,

Matt: It's true.

She is the best at that.

There's No one I know, but that
can, that, that is better at

that than you not one person.

Um, and, And it has been such
an amazing, amazing gift that

you came on this podcast.

Sarah: I, I'm so thankful
for the moment I heard it.

I was like, and, and I do want you all.

Since I've come and talked to you
about your, all of these, your brain.

Yeah.

Maybe you can play D&D with me.

Matt: Just play more.

Play more, play

Alison: Yes.

I am so happy, privileged, and
grateful to have finally gotten

to meet my new best friend.

Uh, that's.

Sarah: Yeah.

I'm like, oh my God, I'm so excited.

Matt: Y'all are gonna be peas in a pod.

Sarah: Pod.

Alison: We're gonna be out here
like some blue hair and old

ladies in our loud colors with
our big glasses, just embracing

every single quirk and forgetting

Sarah: Partying on the street and
being like, love your life people.

Yeah!

Alison: Yes.

Yep.

Well, Sarah, we love you and your energy
and everything that you bring, and will

continue to bring, thank you so much
for, you know, shedding your sparkle,

Sarah: Thank you so much.

So I love you.

I love your community on Discord.

I they just think, I think
everybody that you are in your

beautiful dancing tornadoes.

Life drawing in magnetizing to yourselves.

and they're dancing with you.

And I mean, me too and the, tornado.

Beautiful.

Matt: The dancing tornado sounds
like a high school dance core team.

I love it.

Sarah: I think we should start one.

Matt: I think we're gonna start one

Sarah: Since dance is one,

Matt: Because I need to, yeah.

Okay.

Great.

Great.

Alison: If you're not a dancing tornado,
what are you even doing with your life?

Matt: Don't know.

Dunno.

Awe and Wonder Woman!