AK!: On today's episode of ADHD20, I
hope I'm wearing fireproof pants, cause

Matt's about to haul me into the hot seat!

Hehehehe!

Matt: Oh no, Not again.

AK!: Hi, Mattie.

Matt: how

much did that pack of hands cost?

AK!: Like, $7!

Matt: How much joy received?

AK!: Endless!

Like you don't even know how much
fun my life is now that I have

beaucoups of tiny hands, okay?

Matt: man.

I just

AK!: Welcome to ADHD20, a podcast
that sits at the intersection of ADHD.

Matt: TTRPGs.

My name is Matt, And I have ADHD.

AK!: And my name is Alison
and I have very little hands.

Matt: dude, I was hoping
you were gonna say that.

AK!: Tiny hands, one might even say.

Matt: We know each other
and we do the things.

Um, hey Alison, how

AK!: It's, it's, it's been a while.

Matt: been a while.

since I've been Yes.

AK!: How am I?

Scared.

Matt: Yeah.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, I bet you are.

I bet you are.

This is a very, important

AK!: This is a very, you know, you
have, you have really done, done

so well to take feedback and ideas
and new information in stride.

But now it's my turn
and I'm, I'm so scared.

I

Matt: so

AK!: There's

Matt: some good news.

There's some good news.

Uh, I don't know that you
need to be scared, scared.

Uh, but, um, you know, this is going
to be, this is going to be a, a, an

intervention of sorts, but it's going
to be, as always, a safe space as well.

Today, we're going to be talking
about something that plagues so many

of us, not just people with ADHD,

uh, but really ever since, I
mean, at the very least, 2007

when the iPhone came out, uh,

AK!: I love that you know the year.

Nerd.

Matt: Uh, of course I do.

Uh, You know, when, when cell,

when cell phones became
mobile phones became,

you know.

Pocket Oracles, or whatever
billions we have for them.

AK!: Pocket Oracles.

Matt: Yes, Pocket oracles.

Ever since 2007, I, um,

there has been an increased,

an increasing, you know,

ability to vanish in plain sight.

AK!: Did you ever have a Blackberry?

Matt: never had a

AK!: Oh Man, that was
my like gateway drug.

Matt: Ah,

AK!: man, I got that Blackberry and nobody
ever saw the front of my face ever again.

It was just

Matt: Wow,

AK!: top of my head

Matt: This a long time coming.

AK!: is a long time coming.

Matt: Okay.

Look, we've talked about stimming.

We've talked about things that sometimes
we do that are surprising to other

people that actually help us focus.

I know that some of it
is stimming for you.

I know that.

However, uh, the reason that I felt like
I maybe should, it could be a good topic

for many is that you have been caught a
few times not knowing what's happening.

And look, the two of us are friends.

And then everybody listening
to this with ADHD and other

brains also friends, right?

So We wouldn't have this podcast
if Alison wasn't okay with it.

Let's put it that way.

We would not be, we'd not be talking
right now if you were not, okay,

in fact, you were the one that
suggested I go to your friends

AK!: did do that.

I said, listen, these are the people that
have spent time in person with me lately.

Go, go get the dirt from them.

Um, I also, because of how often you
have put yourself up for discussion,

uh, that's what we do here at ADHD20
and that's, that's the interesting

part of being an adult, right?

Is that like, there's parts of myself
that I just know, fundamentally, I'm

never going to change whether or not
I want to, and then there are parts

of myself that I'm like, especially
if it is hurting other people,

I want to change, you know, if it's,
if I, if my, you know, phone use and,

you know, inability to not scroll
social media for 17 hours a day

is making people feel like I don't
value their time, that's a problem.

And we need to talk about it.

So,

Matt: Yeah.

So, that is what we're going to be
talking about on today's episode.

Uh, Alison's quote unquote addictions.

Addiction to phones.

But before we do

AK!: But before we do that.

Matt: There's something that we
always have to start the show with.

I think it's your, it's your turn to roll

AK!: Okay, I'll roll.

I, I never need to be
like coaxed into rolling.

How about What

Matt: What is, your ADHD tell?

AK!: My, my, my, my, my
inability to stay off my phone.

No I mean, sometimes the comedy
just writes itself, but that's my

honest answer is that I am so easily
distracted, most often by my phone.

Matt: Yes, yes, and We're
gonna get into this,

AK!: get it.

That was the Dice Gods, man.

They were listening for this one.

Whoo.

Uh

Matt: listening, But the fun thing
about it is, is that, as we've

mentioned many times, you and
I have a very different strain

AK!: Uh huh.

Uh huh.

Matt: Uh and maybe, maybe that's
why you allow yourself to be,

um, um, distracted by your

AK!: Mm hmm.

Matt: Because it, it, distraction
ness is not as strong within you.

Impulsiveness is not

as strong within me.

So, we'll get into it.

But I, I kind of love this.

That is kind of magic.

AK!: And you?

Matt: Uh, Oh man, I mean,

AK!: Where's your fidget spinner?

Is it there?

Matt: on.

I mean, literally, right, I was
using it just, just before I pulled

up this, this chart, but there?

I feel like there's so
many ADHD tells for me.

I feel like I wear it far more
visual, visibly than you do.

I don't know.

AK!: Really?

Matt: I mean, I, please,
please convince me

AK!: I, I, yeah, I don't, I mean, I,
I don't think that you don't wear it

visually, but I, like, I feel like,
For both of us, like, anybody spends 5

minutes in either of our presence and
is armchair diagnosing either of us.

The thing is, they don't have
to, because we have both made

ADHD our entire personality.

We're basically vegans like that.

Um, but like, it's there's CrossFit,
there's being vegan and there's ADHD

and like, that those are the 3 things
that you don't ever have to ask anybody

about, because they will tell you.

It's funny because I'm realizing as
you were answering that question, as

I was answering that question, that
we made this list up back in Season 1.

Matt: Right.

AK!: It's,

Matt: it is,

AK!: it's probably time to, like, you
know, refresh the list, but because

it has, I mean, it really has been a
beautiful, wonderful thing, but, like,

it's so, because back when we were
first beginning this podcast, Matt,

we, we did, like, maybe not everybody
was as familiar with our tells.

Maybe we weren't as familiar with
our tells, but, like, three seasons

later, like, I think that's a very
laughable question to ask either of us.

My, how we've grown

Matt: exactly, I totally agree.

I feel like I've only
learned more tells in last

AK!: Every day.

Every day I'm like, how did we not know?

Matt: How did we not

AK!: Well, we?

did know,

but

Matt: Well,

AK!: we?

knew

Matt: We, yeah, we did Uh, but yes,
I mean, specifically, the obvious way

that my brain is ahead of my mouth,
and I don't start with a subject of

sentences many, many, many times, and
therefore, in my mind, I've already

finished the sentence that I've just
said out loud, and then everyone's like,

what are you, what are you fucking
saying, Another tell that, that I'm,

I'm actually embarrassed about and I'm
trying really hard to work on because,

you know, because I do film myself so
much more and I watch my, is the rocking.

That's, You're

AK!: a rocker and I'm a twister.

Matt: Yeah, so many tells.

AK!: what are you, what
are you going to do?

What are you going to do?

All right.

That's me.

stalling.

Let's

Matt: So, you've been called into
the principal's office because

AK!: take some deep breaths
together, everybody.

Matt: I'll start off by telling a story.

AK!: Yep.

Matt: Possibly because, number
one, I, the distractible,

for those of you that are not
watching this, Alison has just got

these plastic baby hands on her face.

Okay, perfect, perfect example.

Uh, because the inattentive type of
ADHD is mine it has been a challenge

for me my entire life with and without
medicine, definitely with and without

diagnosis, I have developed, ways that
I could possibly minimize at least

the appearance of being distracted.

Does that make sense?

So, it takes a lot of
energy and time and focus.

But, for an example, when watching
a television show or a movie, I am

the guy who has to have it quiet.

And it's not because I'm not interested
in what the person next to me is saying.

It's not that at all.

I am interested, and that's the problem.

If there's a commercial, and
everybody gets up and goes

to the kitchen to get food,

AK!: mm hmm,

mm

Matt: I could just go.

AK!: mm

hmm,

Matt: somewhere else.

I could just go elsewhere, right?

And so when phones started happening,
when phones started to become the

distraction that they are for everybody,
when they became the dopamine machines

that ruled the world, Uh, and on top
of that, social media, of course.

Right?

Because we're not just talking about we're
not just talking about iPhones, right?

We're we're also talking about
what in the iPhone is the thing

It's the notifications, right?

It's the bleeping and the,
the attention grabbing stuff.

That's what it is.

Uh, and social media is to blame.

I blame social media for a lot
of things, but that is definitely

one that you can't deny.

So, those two points together, I have
been able to, for the most part, not

be distracted by my phone in the way
that I've seen my friends be, right?

I'm not, I'm not saying I'm cool for that.

I'm just saying it also
makes me more aware, right?

So I'd like to start
this podcast with that.

Like, I am very much aware of people.

You are not the only one.

everybody knows someone, and it's okay.

It is now a part of our culture,
it's a part of our society.

My only thing, and your
friends, also chime in.

Our only thing is, can there be ways
that we help you to be there with us, in

times that you quote unquote should be.

And we're not talking about
hanging out in your house,

everybody doing their own thing.

We're not talking about that.

We're not talking about, uh, I mean
in certain situations we're not

even talking about dinner, right?

Like how many, how many restaurants
do you go to and you walk in and

everybody's just on their phone?

Or certainly like in a subway, right?

You know, it's like, we're We're talking
about some very specific situations

that I feel like, in the past, you
have, you know, that are not as

precious as they are to others around you.

I don't know what I'm saying.

You know what I'm saying.

Okay, so, obviously the biggest example
for me is playing role playing games.

And We've talked about it, and I
know what it is for you, and at the

same time, I can't distance, I can't
stop the visual of it, too, you know?

Wow this is really difficult to say,
this is, it's a difficult thing to

say, because it's hard to relay a
feeling you With also an incredible

amount of understanding, right?

Of something that bothers you, or
something that you could talk to your

friend about and ask them How could
we, how could we help you improve this,

but also totally understand, right?

And so, all I can do is talk about the
situation where, as a Game Master, if

I am, if I am Game Mastering, it's not
that I need everyone to be perfectly

rapt at everything that I'm saying.

It's just that I do know when
people are not in the room, right?

and I feel it, and therefore it takes me
out of the game, whether or not you're

out of the game, which is so weird, So
I was just wondering, like, since we

know, since we know why the phone is a
big, uh, focus point, and we know that

it's a comfort thing, and we know that
it's a stim device, and let's also add on

top of this, you are a marketing person.

You work in the world of marketing.

there's a lot of, a lot of videos
that I did some research on before

this podcast that were like,
yeah, just remove social media.

You can't do that, right?

Alison can't do that.

I mean, I'm in the same way.

I don't, I don't use social media
very often, but the second that

I try to delete all the apps off

my phone, I need it.

I have to put it.

back on So all we're actually
talking about, really, is

how do you feel about certain situations,

I would imagine, like, dinnertime
with a uh, certainly gaming,

uh, and what other situation?

Theaters?

I don't know.

Movies?

AK!: Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt: Okay, Even if we could find
something that could not make you less

relaxed, but make the people around you at
least feel like you're more engaged, too.

There were so many eggshells walking,

AK!: I

don't.

Well, let me, let me say just as
you have gone to great lengths

to assure me that I am safe.

I want to extend the same to you.

Anything that you say here I know
is coming from a place of love,

coming from, I think the, the, the
point of this whole podcast, both

this episode and then like ADHd20 on
a whole is about curiosity, right?

It's about curiosity of like, what's
good, like, just explain to me, like,

what's going on in there so we can
kind of reach this understanding.

And ultimately what you're asking is, is
there something because, and that's how

we kind of started the episode, right?

Is that like, if something I
am doing is making somebody

else feel some kind of way,

Let's have a conversation about it.

Matt: Right.

AK!: While also being like, because
that's that's a relationship.

That's a friendship.

You know, it's like, there's this,
there's things that we all do that other

people wish we didn't do, but then they
do things that we wish they didn't do.

And so there's just

this kind of, like, give and take here.

So anything that you want to say,
Matt, like, carte blanche, like,

please say it, it will, it will
make me slash us slash this better.

And there might be an actual answer
that I can give you as to why I do that.

I already have some answers based
on the things you've already said.

Um, it might be worth a conversation
to see if there is a level of

compromise that could make both
parties somewhat equally comfortable.

Uh, it might mean aha moments for other
people, which has always, you know, long

been that it's not just about me and Matt
here, but rather how everybody that we

are lucky enough to be in community with,

Matt: Yes.

AK!: touch and reach and engage
with the world around them.

So, um, you can say whatever you want.

Matt: There's a gentleman that I found
online, his name is Reagan Rose, and

I feel like he put it very well, and
I also feel like it's appropriate for

this podcast as it involves a sword.

And he says that these mobile
devices that we now rely on, their

use of them, the power of them,
has become a double edged sword.

On the one hand, you have
something that could actually

sharpen your life, your productivity.

It allows you to in some
ways, be more present.

It allows you to communicate with
people who don't have the ability to

communicate, uh, you know, otherwise.

Or, you can do things that
we've never been able to do.

But on the, on the other side,
the, the, the double edge

is, it dulls our attention.

It dulls everybody's attention.

AK!: Can I give an example of,
like, something happening right now,

real time that I've noticed, um,
specifically about social media and

the double edged sword of it all.

So we have just, Southeast has just been
through two major hurricanes, Helene

and Milton, in the last two weeks.

Devastating.

So, but the way that social media has kind
of come to its aid and come to its rescue

and people were organizing ways to airlift
supplies and rescue efforts was a really

incredible, amazing use of social media.

On the other hand, there are people
who put their lives and the lives of

others in danger because they wanted
the satisfaction of becoming an

influencer because they wanted the views.

So they weathered a hurricane and
didn't heed, you know, the advice

of the authorities and the experts
in the situation so they could watch

their follower count and views go
up, which can then hopefully lead to

new and in their, you know, mind's
eye, better ways to make money.

If that's not the epitome of a
double edged sword of social media,

you know,

Matt: example.

Yeah.

AK!: So I get it.

I get absolutely all of that.

Um, I may have cut you off though,
in that excitement to share that.

Matt: No, I think, I think
that was a really good point.

towards the argument of even those
influencers, like, we are trying

to build a community, right?

We are trying to build a community, we
love our community, and we count on you

to be a voice, that is an important thing.

is your job.

It is a part of who you are.

so I think that if we're talking
about any kind of quote unquote

fixes, they're, they're so simple.

I think they're just so simple.

Because what we've already agreed
upon is that you're using your phone

in the way that it is meant to be
right, both personal and professional.

But I think also, like you've been saying,
it's, it's, we're getting older, we're

learning, we, we are trying to grow.

I consider us to be, self aware, sometimes
too self aware, but we, but sometimes, but

a lot of times that's really, really good.

AK!: If I, if I may defend myself on
a couple of counts, not that you're

asking me to, but I do want to just give
the full context for the people here

who don't know me as well as you and
Sarah, for example, and I've had this

conversation to varying degrees with a
lot of different people over the years.

1, um, Social media makes me happy.

It's why I kind of attempted to go into
it as a career and then went, well, maybe

not everything we love has to be our
career and started to back back out of it.

But to your point, I still do
use it as kind of the primary

face on several platforms.

So a lot of times when I'm on my phone,
especially when we're talking about like

a conference or something like that, like
I'm using it in two different ways and

don't like, so I'm using it twice the
amount of other people, but you have to

give me my fun time too since the other
time I was using it for the purpose of

posting stories, reaching out to people,
leaving comments, because that's the

thing that people a lot of times don't
understand about social media management.

It's very little coming up with the
perfect reel and very much about,

especially, and I read a really great
report that actually who it was Tumblr

of all things put out like just this
week about basically the ways that Gen

Z wants to be engaged in community.

And, and how essentially Gen Z needs
community for the sake of community, not

community for the sake of being sold.

So they want to be invited to a community
by any given brand just to be in the

presence of, of, of talking about
that thing that they might all like.

Whereas millennials and Gen Xers,
I won't lump the Boomers into this.

It's like, they understood that the
communities were more like, let me

ask questions about this platform.

Let me da da da da da da da da

So like.

The more that we use social media,
and that's the thing that's, this

is interesting to me, just like you
have this hunger, this thirst, this

quest, this drive for your tools
and always want to be on the, like,

the best, greatest, next platform.

I have that same hunger for social media.

I, you know, got on Friendster in college.

Basically, the day that Facebook
went global and you did because

I just missed by 1 year.

I just missed being able to
join Facebook in college.

Um, yeah, because I
graduated college in 2004.

Facebook went global in 2006, not
needing a, you remember the iPhone dates.

I remember the Facebook dates.

It was in September of 2006, because
it was right after I moved to New

York and that's why I remember it.

Because I remember a friend
texting me saying, get on Facebook.

You finally don't need
a college email address.

Because back when I was in
college, your email address was

cut off after you graduated.

Um, and so I remember like lamenting for
a few months, like I can't get on Facebook

and I want to be on Facebook and like
borrowing my friend's Facebook account

so I could like sneak on and like spy.

I remember spending a lot, you know,
way too much time in my, you know,

figuring out my top eight on MySpace.

And then, but like, so all of this
pivots into early in my career, I was

managing a team of hotel concierges
and realizing that we could use

platforms like Foursquare and Twitter
to engage with potential clients

to potential brands we wanted.

And this was way before anybody,
I mean, this was Blackberry days.

This is before anybody was
talking about like influencers

as a career and things like this.

So this is something that
has always interested me.

And then like from a, you know,
social person aspect, who's Southern.

So I'm a little bit nosy,
you know, like it's fun.

I enjoy social media.

And, and, in the times in my life where
I've stopped enjoying social media has

been when I have taken myself off, like,
you know, like, shut down my profile

for a minute, taken a step back, you
know, and like, I've gone through, like,

detoxes and cleanses and things like that.

I actually purposefully do not
have notifications on my phone

for any social media apps.

Matt: Mm

hmm.

AK!: Uh, so I don't get, I do not
get a notification if you message

me on Facebook or Instagram or like
my post because it was too much.

Matt: And you've

AK!: And I've kept that off.

Yeah, because that was too much.

So, it becomes intentional
for me to go to the platform.

Now, do I go to the platform too
much because it's a form of stimming?

Yes, but I don't get notifications
for that very reason because

the impulse gremlin in me was
I gotta go like the comment.

I gotta go interact, you know, for
both brands as well as personal stuff.

Matt: Well, and let, let me, let me
side note real quick too and say that

I also respect the power, of social
media because of, you know, because

of my time on the early internet, even
Friendster, where we built our own thing.

And I saw, oh my god, wow.

This

is, This is a real community.

This, this really, these,
these are people I care about.

These are, this is real, so I, I don't
want to, I don't want to downplay

that either, which I think a lot of
people do, and I think they shouldn't,

AK!: Well, it's,

it's,

Matt: I don't, I really
don't think they should,

AK!: it's, what you and have always
talked about on this podcast where anytime

you feel the need to start a sentence.

Well, why don't you just
why don't you just...?

Just stop just stop talking at that point?

Because you're about to belittle
someone, even if you mean well.

Matt: point.

AK!: and so when people give
me the, why don't you just

take off your notifications?

Well, I've already done that, you
know, like, and again, you're taking

away from the fact that I like it.

I enjoy it.

It's a hobby.

Like, I enjoy learning about it.

I enjoy when you guys ask me
questions and I can give you answers.

You know, and so we all have our things.

It's just that, like, I feel like
sometimes social media has gotten such

a bad rep over the years that people
do want to kind of belittle that.

Nobody would ever go to somebody who
knows a great deal about coding or a

great deal about, you know, like any
of the things that I feel like a lot

of my contemporaries know a lot about.

But there's something about social
media that makes people want

to kind of, like, write it off.

That does hurt my feelings.

And then that's when the gremlin
really rises and I double down and get

really

Matt: And you double down.

Yeah,

So, yeah, So we've, we've already
said, yes, you're, you are not wrong.

You are using it as correctly as possible.

I'm not active on social
media, not for the reasons.

I mean, my problem is I just
can't control it, right?

Like I can't.

I don't like the chaos, and
I can get, I will dive into

rabbit holes that are just apps.

I've got so many things, other things
that I want to do, but it doesn't make me

happy, and it does make you happy, right?

Uh, another reason, a quick plug
for our incredible Discord that,

uh, I do love that, and it is, it is
so similar to my first days on the

AK!: yeah,

Matt: Where we built our own.

And it is so much like
that and it's just, yeah,

I love it.

I, I may not be on it every single
day, most days, but I do love it.

then I'll just pose this as a question.

Would you be willing to find
ways to simply manage the timing?

I mean, I think you started with the
notification thing, probably, but I wonder

if there are ways, ways that I use too,
that might be for the next three hours

I'm gonna press a button and it is going
to hide everything and it is gonna dim

everything and it is going to make it
so much harder for me to check phones.

I mean does that even sound, I mean
I know, I know it's difficult, but

is that, does that even sound like
something that you would be willing to

AK!: So here, here's, here's the thing.

Matt: hmm.

AK!: I sound like I'm about
to be defensive and I'm not.

I'm, I'm like, posing because I
hear you and I want to, like, get

to a place that we both feel good.

The thing that distracts me.

And when I pick up my phone and start,
like, whatever, and honestly, a lot

of the time I'm playing Home Escapes.

If you look at me and I'm on my
phone, and especially if it's

sideways, I'm playing Home Escapes.

I'm not on Facebook.

I'm not actively talking to anybody.

I'm moving colored blocks around
a screen because I'm stimming.

Like, when, when I watch TV, I
realized this a couple of weeks ago,

like, when I was growing up, my mom
was always like, cross stitching or

knitting or like, doing something
with her hands while she watched TV.

That's what I'm like, so
I'm not like, actively doing

anything is this very passive.

I don't enjoy just
sitting and watching TV.

And so when people that's a time when
people say, why don't you just like,

why don't you put your phone down?

Relax.

Matt: Yeah,

AK!: This isn't relaxing to

me.

Like, now I feel like I'm being
forced into doing something.

So that's understanding what I'm doing.

8 times out of 10, when I pick up
my phone, it's not me reacting to

a notification or a text or a call.

It's me saying, I have some extra
energy in my body right now,

and it needs to go somewhere.

Otherwise, it's going to
become disruptive in game.

That's what I'm doing.

Matt: Yeah.

So,

yeah.

let's put that on the table to
all of your friends and anybody

who is in a similar boat, right?

And let's be sure that we, we are
making the message clear that Alison

is not trying to insult anyone.

You know, she is not bored.

She does not wish that she
should be doing something else.

She does want to be here.

And she, she simply this is
a way that helps her focus.

Okay, so we've got that.

And we're good with that.

But what can we do to

Meet in the

AK!: Yeah.

Matt: So if my way is to be super
stoic and say you can't speak

during the, you know, like, again,

AK!: That's your way.

Okay.

Matt: That's my way.

Yeah, that's mine.

I mean, I'm very, it's intense
because I, I, I get annoyed because

I'm trying so hard, you know,
like, that's not the way to be.

How can we find those middle grounds?

You know, as we've said a billion
times, it all starts with communication.

It all starts with playing people
this podcast so they understand.

Because it's hard.

And then Yeah.

so what do we

AK!: Well, that's what I'm wondering,
like, what's, you know, because I

hear you and I absolutely want to
give you the space to, to like...

I am always having fun
when I'm playing D&D.

It's just the fact that, like, you know,
it's like the difference of this podcast.

You and I are the only two on it.

So it's a direct
conversation back and forth.

My, my camera is my phone.

So I actually can't play
on my phone during this.

But also, but like, I don't expect
or need to be constantly engaged.

I understand that D&D is a collaborative
thing, and everybody deserves their

time in the sun, you know, their time
in the spotlight, so I would never

want to rob anybody of that, nor
would I want anybody to think that

I'm uninterested because I'm listening
intently, but I happen to be looking down.

So I don't know, like, because
I want to solve it, right?

Like, do I, I mean, do
I need to try knitting?

Just so you guys can see me,
like, leaning back here with my,

I don't know, you know, like, I'm,
I'm, I'm in this with you, Matt.

I want, I want to solve for this,
but, like, I also want to recognize,

you know, like, my needs too, and
that's, that's the hard part is that,

like, your needs in this are very,
very valid, especially to your point,

like, your type is inattentiveness.

So there's things that I'm doing that
are taking you out of the moment.

My type is impulsivity.

So I need to be stimulated
at all given times.

I need the energy to go somewhere.

So, how do we find a place that
my energy can go that then doesn't

detract your inattentiveness?

Like, that's not fair.

Is it me saying like, hey, everybody, I
am picking up my iPad so I can open my

coloring app because I want to because
that's the thing is sometimes that repeat

activity does help me listen better.

Matt: yeah.

AK!: be less of a chaos gremlin,

Matt: Yes.

Yes.

AK!: you know?

Matt: I absolutely get it.

And, and I, and there are
situations where I do it too.

And so, uh, this, you know,
this podcast may be one of

those situations where we don't

AK!: Yeah.

Matt: but here's one
question that I have.

So you have no notifications.

But I wonder if, if I knew
that you definitely weren't

engaged in something else.

Like, sometimes sometimes you
will laugh, and I know that you're

laughing at social media, even,
even if you have been playing the

AK!: Yeah.

Yeah.

Matt: So, I wonder how much of a,
is a, pull If, If we agree that

playing the game is, is is normal.

It's stimming.

Social media can't possibly
belong to that same

AK!: No, that's yeah, that's
something I need to, yeah, that's

something I'm willing to give up

for

sure.

Yeah.

Matt: And I think that is
like a freaky easy fix.

We create a focus mode for you.

And all it does is,

AK!: all my apps that
are not Home Escapes.

Matt: Just, and you can set it
for one hour, you can set it

for you could it D&D.

And it's just It'll give you the
game, but it'll make it really hard

to access any of the social media

AK!: Yeah, I also wonder too, like,
again, like, is there a way to give

a cue without taking you or anybody
else out of game of like, uh, I'm here

and I'm having fun, but my eyes are
going to wander for a minute or like,

because that thing is like, is it,
is it better for me to go off camera?

And those like, sometimes I get the
wiggles and that's when I go off camera.

And like, and like in the room, but
I'm just like marching in place or like

having a little dance party because
like, I am, I mean, like, we talked at

the top of the episode about, like, my
ADHD tells I am a 7 year old boy with

attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.

Okay.

Like, I literally have to move energy
out of my body in a very physical way.

A lot of the times.

Um, but I wonder, you know, there's like
reactions on Zoom and things like that.

If I put, like, if we assign certain
reactions, you know, where it's like

the heart eyes react, if I, and you
can see it at the top of my screen

that says, I'm here, I'm paying
attention, but I'm looking down

because I need a stim, you know, like,
could we try something like that?

Matt: Absolutely.

I think that's a great idea.

And, and the, and the
mindfulness of it could be really

AK!: Yeah, exactly what I was thinking.

Matt: We all could be

AK!: Because that sets the upfront
contract of like, I'm going to look

at my phone now, but I'm not going
to look at social media, because I

respect you, my Dungeon Master, I
respect my fellow players, now is not

the time to be scrolling Facebook.

Matt: Uh huh.

I gotta stim, I gotta stim,
you guys, I gotta stim!

I mean, when we're playing in person,
those beautiful times, very few of them,

but when we get to, and you stand up and
start dancing around, never bothers me.

Never takes me out.

Never distracts me.

Because you are dancing, but
you're still looking at us.

You're there.

I can tell.

You know, it's

AK!: yeah,

Matt: uh, Another thing that I will say,
this is, this is a more costly situation,

but one thing that I think helped me
enormously, and especially virtual

experiences, is getting a teleprompter.

Because I'm looking at you.

I am looking at you right now.

I'm

AK!: Yeah, see, I'm having to look
down and then up to my camera,

okay.

Matt: You're looking down
and you could look at any

AK!: my dice are all down here
and they are so damn pretty.

And every second I look down
is an exercise and not picking

up my dice and rolling them.

It's so hard.

Matt: But, under the table, this thing
has been spinning for, how long have

we been, for 56 minutes and 48 seconds.

This has just been spinning.

Right?

That, that's fine.

But I know, I know that I'm respecting
you by looking into my camera

because of this, this teleprompter.

And I'm just like, and it really helps me.

AK!: Yeah.

Because I'll say this too,

like, I know for a fact that, like,
For me, a lot of it, especially

the social media aspect of it
has to be kind of cold turkey.

This is why when I go for walks,
I don't take my phone at all.

It's why I stopped wearing an Apple watch
because like, that was in my brain, like,

the 1 time of day that, like, I can't,
but I can't be trusted when I'm on a walk

to not pull my phone out of my pocket.

I can't be trusted to not see
if I have any notifications.

So the only way, that's why when I've
needed breaks from social media, I've

had to just remove myself from the
platforms temporarily because I can't

be trusted to only use it for, you
know, and so it was like, use the timer.

I'm like, no, because I'm an
adult, so I'll go around the timer.

So like, so I would say this,
there's, there's, I think

we've come up with some ways.

I like the teleprompter idea,
manifest some money for that

to come sit on top of my,

um, yeah, please join our
Patreon so Alison can afford

a ding ding teleprompter.

Yes.

Um, I, let's, let's practice hopefully
as soon as a Sunday with like, using

reactions as statuses, almost just
to kind of give you a, you know, I'm

getting fidgety versus like, I'm paying
attention, but just need to look down.

And then, um, you know, the other,
I would say this just to you, Matt,

as my friend, and any of my friends
who may be listening, or anybody

who this episode has resonated with
and wants to know how to approach

the subject with someone they love

If we need to have a no phone dinner.

Like, you just have to tell me that.

Because a lot of, like, and that's the
thing, I know I am not the only one who

just, like, without even realizing it,
pulls up their phone and starts scrolling.

A lot of times I will purposefully have
my phone in my pocket at dinner or on

the table, but like you, the second I see
somebody else pull out their phone, that

is an invitation for me to do the same.

And then it's hard to to peel it away.

And I know, like, none of us ever want
to, like, come down on each other and be

like, Alison, you can't be on your phone.

But, If it's important to you
that you have my rapt attention.

I'll do it.

I just need to know about it.

And I need you to be
willing to go there with me.

I'm not saying that to you, Matt.

I know you will always have a
no phone dinner with me, but

but my

Matt: I mean, look, if you're in a
marriage, or if you're in a relationship

of any kind, and it does not in any
way distract or bother each other that

you're on your phones, I have no problem.

I've just, yeah,

AK!: have a friend and I won't
name names, but I remember at

one point we were hanging out.

I realized we were just like, sitting, I
think we were like, traveling somewhere,

but we were like, we'd had like a day of
doing and seeing and eating and exploring.

And we were like, in our room
before dinner, just playing

on like, both on our beds.

Just

Matt: mhm.

AK!: and at one point, like,
I felt the need to apologize.

I was like, and she was like, girl,
my favorite friends are the ones I can

sit around and scroll my phone with.

There is some level of comfort of being
with the people that you can't, you

don't need to, it's, it's, it's the
new, you know, kind of soft silence

where we don't need to be entertained.

All that's like, you scroll
your phone, I scroll my phone.

So, I know you're not saying any of that,
but I think you've raised some excellent

points in, like, the ways that it can
be harmful and the ways that we can't

help each other, um, in the moment.

Um,

Matt: think, Okay, so I'll tie this
back to D&D and I'll tie this back,

you know, just really the one situation
where I have ever felt as a friend

to say something to you, right?

That, playing a game the way that
I like to play the games, because

Lord knows there's a billion ways
to play Dungeons & Dragons, okay?

But the way that I know we all love to
play is is kind of a performance, and

I think that's a part of it for me.

It's like a beautiful combination of
a performance, like an improv show

without any of the stress and strain
caring about an audience But it is

a for me, and I'm like trying to do
all these things, and it applies to

you too, because you do the same work.

Like, to me, it just feels like
I need to, I need to live in this

world for the next three hours, hours

AK!: You're method, baby.

Matt: Yeah.

I'm method, baby.

So that's the only time that I
would want to see if, if it's

possible to make some changes.

To even be able to say
that to your friends.

And I'm saying now to people listening,
like, if, if you're in a situation

and there's things that just really,

AK!: Mm hmm.

Matter.

Matt: feel strongly about.

Just talk to them and allow them
to be as cool as AK is, right?

And, and to say, Yeah.

Yeah.

I know it's a thing.

I also love it.

but I respect you and also I love you.

So, like, whatever.

Let's, let's work it out.

AK!: Hey, Matt, guess what?

Matt: What?

AK!: Even with you calling me into
the principal's office today to have

a very serious conversation with me,

Matt: Mm

AK!: going behind my back to my friends
with my express idea and permission,

Matt: With your

AK!: to be clear, Everybody that Matt
went to, he was given permission and it

was my idea for him to poll my friends.

But anyways, I

Matt: I, I mean, here's the best
news, your friends do love you.

AK!: They do and I love my friends.

I hit the jackpot.

Matt: You, have a loyal

AK!: I'll take them all day every day.

I am so thankful and grateful for
them and you are in that number.

did good.

Another intervention

Matt: We're putting
ourselves into the hot seat

AK!: for you.

Um, well, thank you for doing the
work, doing the research, coming

here, ready to be part of the
active solution to our problems,

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: um, and for greeting me in the
spirit that I know you meant it of,

like, collaboration and harmony.

Time

Matt: it really is.

It really is.

It is a journey, everybody, and I am happy
to be on that journey with everybody.

Yesterday was World Mental Health
Day, and I really truly was grateful

to so many people in my life.

Uh, yes, I've made ADHD my
personality and TTRPGs, but,

uh, I am so happy that I have.

And it is a journey.

I mean, I don't know how I
lasted this long without doing

so, because it's, it's so great.

AK!: is a weird soup though, man,

Matt: It sure is.

Time, time, only, one

AK!: you know, time, wibbly wobbly,
timely wimely, um, but we got here and

now it seems like we never weren't.

Matt: It's true.

So, until next episode.

AK!: Da da da

da

daaa, and now we make some

weird mouth noises, and we dance

with our tiny hands, la la la la.

Matt: ADHD20 is a creation from
the Pocket Dimension, a multiverse

where we explore neurospice,

Alison: rolling dice,

Matt: and so much more.

Come chat with us in our
Discord server, open to all.

The join link is in our show notes.

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Check out

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Matt: The best way you can help
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Alison: We love that you're here.

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