AK!: What is this loving
gaze you're giving?

Matt: It's just a loving gaze.

Can't I just give you a loving gaze?

AK!: No, there has to
be an agenda attached.

Like, half loving, half, like, perplexed.

Like, kind of like a parent.

Like, I love that kid, but my
God, how are they like that?

Matt: Why are they doing?

Why are you like that?

AK!: Why are you licking the bathtub?

Why?

I've told you to stop, but
you're still licking it.

Matt: Still licking that bathtub.

in

AK!: licking that bathtub.

Matt: Uh, hi, Alison.

AK!: Oh man, I was about to hi Matt ya.

Matt: Oh, go for it.

Go for it.

We'll, we'll flip the switch.

AK!: Hi Matt.

Matt: Hi, Alison.

How are you?

AK!: good.

Back in the recording studio

for some

Matt: in the studio.

Hey, baby, baby, baby.

AK!: is a podcast and video cast

that tries to find the
intersection between ADHD...

Matt: And TTRPGs

That's what it does.

That's what we do.

AK!: that it does.

And today we're borrowing, we're
borrowing from some real life

experiences that we have shared

Matt: We are.

AK!: of late.

Matt: Yeah, it is, it is Con
season for us, pretty much.

It's definitely for me.

I am, we basically just
got back from GaryCon.

No, we didn't.

AK!: Sure didn't.

Matt: We basically just
got back from GenCon.

AK!: We did

Matt: And

in about a month or two,
I'm going to GameholeCon.

Gamholecon.

The worst name, one of
the best conventions.

So, We had a lovely time at GenCon.

You know, I say it's a lovely time.

It is a lovely time.

We were together.

We learned a lot.

There's a whole bunch of
wonderful things that happened.

It is an endeavor, though.

It is, it's not for the faint of heart.

It's especially, especially Gen
Con with eighty thousand people.

It's, we all came home sick.

You just kind of gear up, you
do the thing, you're exhausted.

You expect to be exhausted.

You expect it.

And that's okay.

But, um, yeah, so we, we played a
lot of games and, and some new games.

And that's kind of, kind of what we
thought we would talk about today.

You and I, discovered that we have a very
specific way that we like to learn things.

I'm not saying it's exactly the same, that
you and I learn things the same way, but

I think The ADHD brain itself has some

rules and regulations that must,

AK!: hmm.

Matt: that must, uh, be met,

AK!: Rules and regulations.

Sexy.

Matt: Rules and regulations, ones
that we can't control, perhaps, uh,

and I've, I've already talked to the
coach about this to find out whether

it was just a hunch or whether it was
a real thing and yes, indeed, uh, most

people with ADHD need to find the why.

And all things and this is going
to apply to so many things.

What you got?

Yeah,

AK!: Well, but first we
have to do something else.

Matt: We certainly do.

We have to find the why in something
and why we're doing this podcast.

AK!: which is to answer
questions on the ADHd100 Table

Matt: That's very true.

AK!: Um, I

think I get to roll this

Matt: think you do.

Yes.

AK!: How about 31, Maddie?

Matt: We have not, we
have not answered 31.

AK!: Amazing.

Matt: Ooh, and I like it.

Money and experience
suddenly do not matter.

What is your profession now?

AK!: This is going to be the most
boring answer on the face of the planet.

Matt: Yeah?

AK!: It's this.

Matt: Yeah.

Yeah.

AK!: I'm doing the thing
that I want to be doing.

I found it.

I searched high and low
for a long, long time.

Um, and, and, and by this, I, I, I
honestly kind of mean, like, it would

be meaningful to, you know, at the end
of my life, look back and say, I, you

know, helped fuel a thriving creative
business with our design studio known

as Bivins Brothers Creative, and then
also all things Pocket Dimension, like

I want to make podcasts and live streams
and content and play games and build

communities for, that's what I want to
do if, you know, so I'm, I'm doing the

thing in the hopes that the money and the

Matt: will follow.

AK!: will follow.

Stay tuned.

Friends, that is the hope,
um, that I am having.

Matt: Yeah,

AK!: Um, but I found it.

What

Matt: yeah, I, I've, I
feel the exact same way.

And there are certainly days where
I'm a little more or less chemically

balanced or I have had more or less
sleep than I needed, and I have

different highs and lows about this,

but this is, this is one of the first
times that even when there is more

imbalance and there is less sleep, for
example, And I, I just, I can tell as I'm

going through the day that I'm going to
sleep, I'm going to be a little bit more

violent towards myself, I'm going to be
a little bit more down about everything,

I'm going to, I'm going to wonder
harder what the why is for all things.

It's, this is different.

Cause I know that tomorrow
I will regain that spark.

This feels correct.

Yeah, as you said, This feels right.

AK!: And I will say, one thing
I'll, so yes, yes, and to

everything that you just said.

Also, I will always be here
for you on those days that you

choose Matt on Matt violence.

Matt: There's that!

Right!

AK!: I, I will, I will smack you
right away from that direction

as, as evidenced by last week.

Uh, when I did exact,
I was like, I need you

to stop being mean to my friend, Matt,

Matt: Oh

AK!: about him a lot.

Um, so get you friends that do that to
you that, you know, call you out when

you're being mean to yourself as so many
of us do, um, you are not alone in that.

But, uh, a well documented life.

I was, uh, cleaning out my house
this weekend and going through some

things and I found some old journals
and I found a journal from when I

was at one of my lowest professional
points and supremely unhappy.

My blood pressure was the
highest it had ever been.

Like, every part of my body
was shutting down because of

how much I loathed this job

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: and to, like, read my rantings.

And I was trying so hard to have,
like, gratitude and, like, hold

space for myself and all of it.

But I was just so, like,
depleted and stressed and angry.

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: And so when I think about,
like, even my most stressed out days.

with what we're doing now, don't come
close to other versions of myself.

And I

have to remind myself of that often

that this life I'm living right
now, right here today is what 5

and 8 and 10 year ago me desired,

Matt: Mhm.

AK!: like, would have done anything
for and so even when it does get

hard, like, reminding myself that to
be like, you fought for this life.

And yeah, you know that
you can level it up, right?

But like, you wanted to be
here, and here you are, and

now you'll figure out what the next
mountain you will scale will be.

Matt: I love that.

Yeah.

Yes, climb that mountain.

AK!: Ford every stream.

Oh no.

Matt: Oh no.

AK!: There we are, three weeks later,
still battling the con crud, you guys.

So if we burst into
coughing fits, we're sorry.

Matt: Yeah, it

AK!: Well, that was, I
think, an excellent segue.

It's almost, It's almost,
like the dice tell the story.

Matt: It really is.

It's almost like dice tell the story.

AK!: as, as we think about our why and
what we're doing and what we would do

differently if money, um, and pesky
little things like needing health

insurance wasn't a factor, what would
we be doing at the end of the day?

It's about finding your why.

So yeah, talk us through even
more than about this conversation

you had with your coach.

Matt: So we started talking about the
concept of well, of learning and, things

like, I've told probably more than once
in this podcast of little Matt Bivins,

AK!: Oh, Mattie

Matt: table with an open dictionary,
copying, Out the words and sobbing.

I,

AK!: Actually, you know what?

I'm gonna correct you.

I don't know that I've heard that
story, and I bet our listeners

Matt: so sad.

Really?

I, I despised busy work.

I despised busy work.

I knew when I was little
what busy work was.

I knew that it was simply

AK!: I don't know what else to do with ya.

Yeah.

Matt: work.

Yeah, exactly.

Worked, worked, worked.

I did, I, I, I knew that copying words
out of a dictionary was not going to give

me, not me personally, it was not going to
give me any learning or understanding of

language, really?

You know, and sure, if an English
teacher, if an English teacher stops

me on The street and says, hey, I heard
that, You said that copying words out

of a dictionary is not going to help you
with English, and I disagree, sure, I'll

listen to you, but it was busy work, it
was pure busy work, and I, oh my gosh,

I would just cry and cry, because I, I,
it was so brutal, and the, the problem

is, my brain is missing the thing.

Probably, it's called dopamine.

Dopamine receptors, right?

Like, uh, that allows me to continually
do something if I don't, if I can't

comprehend the why, if I don't understand
the why, if I don't, if, you know, I was

just saying to you that on a timeline I
can, I can pinpoint in any job I've ever

had where I lost the love for that job,
it almost always correlates to the time

where I lose faith, I lose respect for.

The boss, or the reason, if I'm the boss,
if the project just falls apart because

AK!: Mm

Matt: the why skitters away, right?

It becomes less meaningful, or it becomes
clouded, or any, if I can't hold on to

that that feeling of why am I doing this?

Oh,

AK!: I love that in your world, why's
are the like, scary little monsters,

not scary, but little monsters
that could be cute little monsters.

Matt: Oh, yeah.

AK!: You know, that when you turn on
the light, they all go skittering about.

Um, and that's what people mean
that that's giving me a really

great visual for find your why.

Um, cute little monsters.

Matt: I want to find, the monsters
then what does that say about me?

Yeah

AK!: Matthew Bivins, Monster Hunter.

Um, uh, no, I, and I'm with you and
I've never really correlated the

two, but you're completely right.

And so I do wonder if that is humanity or
ADHD or both, por que no los dos, right?

About, you know, because yeah,
I mean, is finding the why your

own personal form of dopamining?

Matt: For sure.

Uh, it's, it is, it is
absolutely necessary for me.

I have actually close to
attacked a rent a cop before.

Because the why, the fairness, the
justice was being trodden upon, right?

By someone who is just following some
kind of order blindly, and then gets all

puffed up, and I have no respect for that.

For that person.

Uh, same with some bosses, same with with

AK!: My parents.

Matt: same with parents,
same with game masters.

Same with, you know, like I
have to know, I have to feel.

Like, there is, there is a point to it,
and I will follow rules to the letter.

AK!: Yeah.

Matt: They may be ridiculous
rules, but I will follow them.

Like, here's a good example.

I, I did actually go to the Soup Nazi in
New York, um, when I was living there.

And, uh, that, that was made famous

AK!: No soup for

Matt: by, Yeah.

No soup for you.

Seinfeld . And I went and I heard these
stories of this person who had all

these rules and regulations as to, you
know, why he had to have, you have to

six feet apart or something and you
step up and if you don't know what you

want to order, then you have to get it.

you know, get out of line and start over.

It was very, very intense.

But he had personal, genuine reasons
for the intensity of these rules.

I'm not saying that these rules were
rules that I would have, necessarily.

But for him, if you wanted his soup.

This is the way he needed it done.

And I could follow those
rules very, very easily.

But if, if it had, if there was any
kind of, and every single one of

the rules did make sense, what he's
trying to do is keep the line moving

because there was an enormous wait all
the time at this tiny little place.

There wasn't room for people to Hang out.

AK!: Stand around and mull

Matt: You had to be efficient.

I mean, that was New York as a whole,
New York City as a whole, the efficiency.

I got it.

I really got it.

Even if it was annoying to me.

I accepted it.

Right?

AK!: yep.

Matt: So,

AK!: So, I'm going to, I'm going to
totally sidetrack us on a little side

quest for a second, but, you're bringing
up New York and then I'm wondering, I'm

wondering if we can tie all this back in.

I saw a really interesting TikTok
a couple of weeks ago about why New

Yorkers are the way that they are,

Matt: Mm hmm.

AK!: Um, because, you know, you know,
it's one of those, like, from the

outsiders looking in, think that New
Yorkers are some of the most crass,

most rude, most unforgiving, you know,
New Yorkers get this bad rap of just

being bitches and assholes, right?

And, and, and so this TikToker, and
I'll have to try and find it by the

time we publish this episode, so we
can include it with the show notes,

because I in no way, shape or form
want to take credit for this thought.

But basically, New York is the
most crowded city in America.

And one of the more crowded
cities in the world.

I know we don't, can't hold a candle
to cities in Asia and things like that,

but, but for what it is, it is crowded.

And so what New Yorkers value the most,
and this fits into Soup Nazi as well, is

space, both in terms of, like, physical
bubbles around ourselves, as well as,

like, the space that you can create
for yourself, like, space and time.

Time for me is space, right?

Like when I get the most just like
cringy and bitchy is usually when like

I have convinced myself I don't have
enough time to do something and I go into

like panic, overdrive, overload mode.

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: So, this creator goes on basically
to say that because space is the

thing that New Yorkers as a collective
value the most, it is the thing

that we will protect at all costs.

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: But if you've ever noticed that
whenever there is any sort of, like,

crisis or, like, opportunity to help,
that's when, like, the space like, closes

in on itself and New Yorkers, like, can't
get to you fast enough, you know, so it's

like, the example that they gave is when
you're on the subway, it's like, don't

permeate, don't penetrate my bubble,
don't talk to me, don't look at me, like,

don't get too close to me physically.

But, like, the 2nd that they see somebody,
like, examining the map that's in

every subway car and looking perplexed
and like, it's like, people go out of

their way to fold in and around and
say, like, how can I give you space?

It's a different kind of space now to,
like platform you to ask your questions

to like see what you need and you know
that's how New Yorkers get the bad rap is

because just at all points we are doing
this like mental triangulation of like how

can I hold my physical and mental bubble
so I can like make it through the day in

this really really cutthroat city and I
just think that that's really interesting.

Matt: I felt that I had
that exact same theory.

After living there.

I felt that exact same way to the
point where moving to Chicago.

I was kind of angry at first, because
that is not a thing here in Chicago.

There's a lot more space.

They do not follow the
same rules of efficiency.

They clog when the train
stops and the door is open.

They clog the exits.

I mean, all, I mean, but I
felt the same way in New York.

And that's why I mentioned it.

That is, that is the why, in my opinion,
in my opinion, I thought New Yorkers were

some of the kindest people in the same,
for the same reason that you're saying.

And you know, you could talk
about the people that work at the

jobs that don't pay enough or are
exhausting, like, MTA workers.

I met a whole.

lot of MTA workers that were
incredibly nice and helpful, right?

It's just, everything in New
York is, is just intensified.

To a degree where you have to, you have
to think, you have to get out of the way.

You've got to protect yourself.

That is efficiency.

That is the why.

Yeah.

AK!: Well, and so now like
connecting the dots for me.

Because, like, this started, you
know, talking about, like, you use

the word fairness and to tie that
back to any level of NeuroSpice is

like the word accommodations, right?

Or accessibility, you
know, is another big word.

And so it's like,

Matt: Yeah.

Mm

AK!: you know, accommodations,
accessibility to otherwise are all

conversations that we're trying to
have to promote in some circumstances,

equity, equality, fairness, because the
same thing that you need in order to get

through your day is not the same thing
as I need in order to get through my day,

but we both have an inalienable right

Matt: Yep.

AK!: to, you know, make it through
our days, you know, without

encroaching on the needs of others.

And that, that's, that's, you
know, kind of, I think, where this

conversation is happening is like,
how do our rights, needs, wants, whys.

fair to us, how does that bump
up against others, you know,

and so you hear about it.

I hear about it a lot of times
in schools, you know, that's

not fair that they got more time

Matt: Mm hmm.

AK!: test.

That's not fair that they
had this certain aid.

Um, but, you know, like, all
that fairness is trying to do

is get everybody to a baseline,

Matt: To a balance.

Finding that balance.

Yeah.

100%.

And in our outline, we, we mentioned
two things that we wanted to kind of

get, get to, after leaving a convention.

AK!: hmm.

Matt: How games are explained to us.

How new games are explained.

Um, and how All manner of
factors that you would not expect

AK!: Mm

Matt: go into whether or not we
like a game, which again, I know is

everyone, But for us those, those
reasons can be, can seem silly,

can seem, you know, or, or can seem

superficial, perhaps, maybe.

Mm

AK!: what if we reframed reasons
and rebranded that as values?

So to go back to the New York City, both,
you know, micro Soup Nazi, macro New York

City as a whole, like, the value, the
shared value of New York City is space.

That's the thing that we
must protect at all costs.

Right?

And so all New Yorkers rally
around that knowledge and,

act a certain kind of way when
outsiders, especially encroach on

that core shared value of space.

Matt: Right.

AK!: So, I think we can then apply
the same things to like, what you were

just saying about game systems and
like, whether we are not, we like them

is does some aspect of it infringe
upon our group dynamic or value

Matt: Yeah.

I love it.

We, we got all manner of types of
explanation for new games this time.

We, let's see if we can list the big ones.

Uh, there was, there were the GMs
that were explaining the game.

AK!: Thoughtfully and in great detail.

Matt: great detail, lots of
thought went into it, almost

rehearsed, almost memorized a, a
performance of, of giving us rules.

So that was one way.

Another way was trial by
fire, just drop you in.

AK!: Let's just start playing
and I'll explain it as we go.

Matt: Right?

Because the assumption is that
everybody there has played a game.

And so, You're just gonna find the,
the correlations, you're gonna find

the similarities, you're gonna find the

AK!: Can you imagine rolling up to like
GaryCon or GenCon or any of the cons

and I've never played a game before.

Matt: Yes.

AK!: My first game, this is the
first day I've ever had fun.

Matt: I

haven't thought

AK!: Absurd, but you know
it's probably happened to

Matt: Oh,

I mean, how could it

AK!: Someone is out on
their rumspringa and they

Matt: yeah, I let out of the cage.

AK!: By golly, I choose fun.

I choose games.

I choose Queen by Midnight.

Matt: at that point, are they
just like, they have a finger and

they're just kind of going through
the event book and they're like,

call this one.

I mean,

AK!: I mean, you know, I think
back to, to like our first group

con, which was GaryCon of last
year and our first game at GaryCon.

So it was like, we didn't know what to
expect going into a gaming convention,

right?

Like, I'm making fun and making
light, but like, we walked into that

very like, why, like, oh, God, where am I?

How do we do this?

Uh, in a little bit of culture
shock, and, um, we sat down

at a Dungeon Crawl Classics

table.

We had never played that before, and
at that point, I had only played D&D.

So,

like, my realm of understanding
of TTRPGs was razor thin.

Um, you would at least played other
games and been exposed to other

games and stuff like that before.

You know, did we do ourselves a
disservice or did we do ourselves

a tremendous, I mean, I think
we did ourselves a tremendous

service because it was exciting.

It was new.

It, you know, kind of opened
the door of possibility.

Matt: Our GM was very good at
explaining the differences, I think.

AK!: And shared values
at the table, Right.

Like, we had other players at that
table who were also willing to shepherd

us, which, like, unlocked something I
think in you and me and Fitz, where,

like, we felt respected, cared for,
like, and therefore, like, I felt bold

enough to ask the dumb questions so
that I could understand, like, the why.

It comes back to the why, too, like,
because I am a petulant child in that,

you know, regard when it comes to
playing games of like, but why, why, why,

why did I, why did I roll those dice?

why, why, why did I, you know, like,
and I am, I am constantly asking

why when I don't understand because
I don't, I want to understand why.

And if you just tell me to roll three
dice, and I, I remember like one

of my biggest aha moments in D&D.

Was as a rogue, I was always told to
just roll your add your, uh, sleight

of hand modifier when you're picking

Matt: Right.

AK!: and I never understood why, because
that's not sleight of hand, right?

Matt: Mm mm.

AK!: It was finally explained to me that
it is typically your, like, depending

on what level you're at, you're adding
proficiency and expertise bonuses and

like 9 times out of 10, it came out
to the same thing as, um, As slight

of hand, for whatever reason, was the
number that always aligned with that.

I'm explaining this poorly,

but basically, like, I think I was
like a plus 9 and so if you looked at,

like, what I had rolled Chimerical at
at the time, it was like, my decks was

a plus 6 and my proficiency was plus 3,

which like, that's how we got to 9.

So, ooh, and then I gave myself
some, some fireworks for doing it.

Um, but I remember, like, like, at
the table constantly being told,

like, oh, just roll sleight of
hand for, you know, if you can pick

that lock and me going, but why?

And it was Fitz, actually, who
explained it's DEX plus proficiency

or in your case, Expertise, which
then bumped it from 9 to 12,

Matt: okay,

AK!: know, but, like, understanding
that, because otherwise it just felt

so very arbitrary to, like, pick
this random skill that wasn't exact.

I thought that's what we all were doing.

I thought y'all were just picking a
sort of closely aligned skill, sleight

of hand, and something that almost
every rogue ever has proficiency, if

not expertise in, is sleight of hand.

So it's like, you're, but
that's the why, right?

Because not every rogue is going to.

Pick lockpicking tools.

Not every rogue is going to be sneaky.

Some of them are going to be more lethal.

Some of them are going to be more
tricky, you know, and so it was

like this, like, why do we use the
sleight of hand stat for lockpicking?

Well, we don't, but that
happened at a glance.

It was easier just to say add nine

rather than dex plus
proficiency or expertise.

Matt: That's a good segue into
something that I was gonna mention

too, is that no matter how these
games are being explained, uh, to me

at least, whether it's the full pre
game speech, or as we go, I, I pretty

much have to find the correlations to
the things that I know in my brain.

So, I know that people don't like this.

But I have to say, oh, like, blank.

Oh, like this.

I am constantly putting people
into quote unquote boxes,

which I know can be
unfair, but to me, it is

a true way that I'm learning.

So, for example, in Tales of the Valiant,
they have a mechanic called Talents,

which are Feats, and so I'll literally
write down Talents equals Feats, and

then I can comprehend it, if, if I, if
I do, or that music, it's kind of like

Lady Gaga, uh, meets Mexican Mariachi.

And then that just, it calms me.

It, it allows me to, it's not that I,
it's not that I'm, I'm not belittling

anybody by saying these things.

I'm, I'm saying, this is, this is
me picking up on The similarities

in order to learn, right?

AK!: Yeah.

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: I'm sitting here trying to
like code you like you Matt or

what happens if and I just can't
think of something fast enough to

be witty and fun.

Matt: uh, uh, it, it, Matt is
what happens if a hipster meets.

AK!: Cumming had been born 15 years
later to parents of hipsters and denied

access to technology until his 20s.

Matt: Interesting and
wasn't as fabulous for sure.

AK!: No, I chose Alan Cumming
specifically for this.

Matt: for the, for the fabulousness.

Okay, Great.

AK!: Yeah, Yeah,

Matt: Uh,

AK!: But no, I, I mean, as, as,
you know, the ultimate, like,

comfort, cozy gremlin over here.

Matt: Yeah,

AK!: I see you on that in terms of like,
you gotta put it in something that, you

know, that's how we remember things.

That's how we know what we're gravitating
towards is like, can I put, can I

frame this to where I, you know, and
I think that's why I was scared of.

Other systems for so long
because they were so unfamiliar

Matt: Yeah,

AK!: and it wasn't until I, I mean, I
think we've talked about this a little

bit on Pocket Dimension Live, right?

Like, your ultimate plight of the
last year has been to, like, fix

the things that are broken in 5e
and until you pointed out that until

Matt: on there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

AK!: out that they were broken.

I, I, I didn't know I was none the wiser.

You know, it wasn't.

Matt: They weren't to you

AK!: They weren't to me.

And so, of course, now that you've,
like, pointed it out, it's all like,

like, I am now hyper aware, you know,
I mean, I think that's why, like, I've

now turned the corner to, like, I just
want to play Daggerheart all the time.

Like, because everything else
now frustrates me because.

because.

as, as we've talked about in our
server, Daggerheart is written

for theater kids by theater kids.

So of course it's the thing that I
personally am gravitating towards.

And I think that's a beautiful, beautiful
thing, because that's a comfort thing.

It's something I understand.

It's something I get, right?

Um, and, you know, it helps that
it's from the team that I have

consumed the most TTRPG content from.

So again, we're like adding
to that's my why, right?

But, you know, like, when we talk
about our core, core values, core

beliefs, you know, like, that all
that is, is you finding your why.

Like, what is the thing
that drives you the most?

Is it independence?

Is it freedom?

Is it love?

Is it family?

Matt: Mm hmm.

AK!: All of those different things.

And it's like, the older I get and
the more like set in my ways, get off

my lawn, um, that I get, the more I
am interested in like, what is easy?

What is comfortable?

What is cozy?

I had a friend here this weekend
and she looked around in my living

room when we were done cleaning and
she was like, it's so cozy in here.

And I was like, that's just the
nicest thing you could say to

Matt: That's really nice.

AK!: lovely to hear that you felt cozy.

Um,

Matt: I personally wish that
people would stop equating that

feeling, that desire, with old.

AK!: yeah.

Matt: To, to me, I don't mind
being, I don't mind getting older.

I really don't.

I have no problems with that, I don't
care if anybody calls me old, they have

the right to do so, but to me, I feel so
much smarter and wiser than I used to be.

So much smarter.

I work so much harder to do the
same dumb things back in the day.

It was busy work.

I gave myself busy work and
it was unnecessary, right?

Talk about like, talk
about finding the why, but

AK!: Are you?

Matt: a balance where you?

push yourself and you learn
new things and you grow.

There's that, but then there's also the,
you know, slowing down as a part of life.

Sure.

But.

Doing, being smarter about

AK!: All right.

Are you ready for me
to eat some humble pie?

We've been eating a lot of humble pie

Matt: Yeah

AK!: You, you were with me.

So, so knowing what we know about me
now that I am, uh, sometimes abrasive

towards new things first times, right?

You were with me, you were there,
you were present the first time

I was ever called middle aged.

Matt: right

AK!: And I

Matt: Wow

AK!: remember the look on your face
as I had like an all out meltdown.

Matt: really melted

AK!: I did, I lost it.

For context, the person calling
me middle aged at the time was 17,

Matt: Mm hmm.

Oh

AK!: in there.

Maybe 15.

Matt: Okay.

Yeah Still,

AK!: Still, you know, I know
like to like 15, 16 year olds,

everybody over 30 is old, right?

But I had never been
called middle aged before.

Okay, that's all.

And I mean, that was before I turned 40.

And so I was still in my 30s.

And so to be in my 30s, I'm
going to live to at least 90.

Okay.

So, like, technically, I got a couple
more years before I'm technically

middle aged, according to me.

Okay.

But I digress.

But yeah, I did.

I had a meltdown and I just
remember Matt looking at me

like, what is wrong with you?

You are really blowing
this out of proportion.

Matt: Was stunned at your reaction.

AK!: Something new, but now call me
middle aged man, because middle age

means that I am slow enough and wise
enough to enjoy the things that matter.

It means that I care about protecting
my own peace more than I do about.

Honoring others wishes.

It means that I understand
and enforce boundaries.

It means I know what
works and what doesn't.

Like, you can call me middle aged.

I'm officially giving everyone
this decree here at 42 years old.

If you want to refer to me as middle aged.

I give you permission,
but 38 year old Alison,

Matt: Who was mad?

AK!: Big mad.

Matt: Uh, well, Middle Aged Alison, uh,

AK!: Wow, you just really
immediately took that permission

and ran with it, didn't you?

Matt: Well, I, I also feel like,
beyond the learning of a game, and

I, if, if anybody was hoping that
we were going to give accessibility

tips, I'm sorry, we didn't really
give that many of how to do it.

We kind of, I, and I don't
know that there is a way.

You, you really preferred being
dropped into the learning of a game.

We also brought, I think one thing that
helped as far as like actual help was we

brought noise cancelling headphones and
we plugged in, we had microphones that

kind of, uh, could in, in that situation
we, we reduced some of the incessant

background noise, which makes it very
difficult for us to be able to focus.

That's just a mechanic.

But I think that the next part of this
is, let's say we've learned the game,

we got through it, and we played it,

AK!: Mm hmm.

Matt: then Then I also think the why
speaks to whether or not we like a game.

AK!: Yeah.

Yep.

Matt: Does that game feel balanced?

Does it improve on something
else, another experience?

Do the rules feel

AK!: Yeah.

Matt: fair?

Well thought out?

AK!: Mm hmm.

Matt: Interesting?

AK!: Do we understand, like, and respect
the path that the game has taken?

Matt: Yes.

AK!: To, you know, there's a lot
of coverage right now in the year

of our Lord 2024 and really has
been since last year when the OGL

scandal broke, you know, around the
way that like Hasbro and Wizards of

the Coast are handling and there's
people wanting to get away from D&D.

In fact, before you and I started
recording this very podcast, there

were yet more new comments on
some of our recent live streams.

Even backing up to, like, a month or
two ago of people saying, I'm looking

for the next D&D because I'm done
supporting that particular business.

And we've run into that too with, like,
You know, watching the trajectory, we

are living in a, you and I both said
this often, we are living in truly

like a golden age of games, right?

We are never wanting

for something to learn, talk
about, play, dissect, etc.

But part of that is we've gotten to see
games go from ideas into playtesting.

You know, and, and into releases
on several different systems.

And we don't always align with the
path that they took to get there.

Matt: Which is, which is absolutely their
prerogative, uh, but that is, that is the,

hmm, that's another thing that I
think the ADHD brain has to maneuver

is not just, accepting the why,
but then creating the history.

That allows us to stick with things.

That allows us to, uh, not completely
leave one thing for all the ooshiny.

Uh, which, you know, we just
did a podcast about recently.

And futzing, and fixing, and
finding the new shiny things.

But the danger is that just like a boss
that I work for, or a client that has

a meltdown, if I lose respect for the
game mechanics that have evolved in

such a way, uh, the artist that wants
to completely redefine themselves,

the creator of games that, uh, You
know, gotten to know personally.

It could be anything.

It could be any

thing that would trigger
this difficulty with

respect.

It's not a difficulty with respect.

It's a, it's a, I need to respect you.

I need to respect the situation in order
to, you know, be a part of your creation.

A lot of times, and I know that there's a
difference between the artist and the art.

I accept that.

I went to art school.

I get it.

Like, there were horrible
classmates of mine that could

AK!: cool things.

Matt: beautiful, beautiful things.

And, um, so it's, it's not even that.

It's that if you're going to ask
me, as an artist, for example,

to If we have a relationship,

AK!: Mm-Hmm.

Matt: me to feel a certain way,
enjoy something, to, to learn about

something, and my respect for you
has changed, Or my respect for what

you have created has changed, my
understanding of it, my faith in it,

I'm going to walk away, most likely.

AK!: Or this goes two ways.

This is a swinging door.

You know, like it means that we don't
necessarily subscribe to cancel culture

and that everything is redeemable.

Matt: That's what I'm saying.

AK!: you know, the example I can
think here is, a year ago we put out a

scathing review of Tales of the Valiant.

And now we're applauding it and saying,
hey, this could be, this could be our

D&D replacement, our 5e replacement.

Um, and that's on both.

Our perspective has
shifted in the last year.

We are, we are in a different place
than we were when we played and

reviewed it for the 1st time a year ago.

And they

Matt: They are.

AK!: And, and we respect the, you know,
the, the thing that the way to get respect

from me is to prove that you're listening.

I've also, you know, applauded
the Daggerheart team for this,

you know, all along the way.

Is that like each of the
videos that they put out?

Okay, this mechanic didn't work.

We heard you guys loud and clear.

Let's put it back.

Oh, well, this still isn't working.

So could we try it?

And it seems to have been
this conversation, this tango,

um, as opposed to, you
know, the, I am God, um,

We've talked about this on
Pocket Dimension Live as far as

like our GM styles of like the,
do we believe that we are God?

Or is it a conversation between, you
know, you and your players to effectively

communicate rulings and decisions?

And at the end of the day, you
are the, you know, referee.

And so you, it does come down to
the GM to make that decision, but

they're not making it in a vacuum.

They're making it in the context
of the table with the rule of cool.

Um, you know, and things like that.

So that.

You know, and that's the thing.

So, like, when we talk about respect,
and when we talk about learning

styles, so the couple of GM's that I
can think of off the top of my head

that we played with a Gen Con that
did not do things my preferred way.

My preferred way being drop us in.

Let us play.

I'll ask you questions as we go with,
like, a little bit of context up front.

I don't need to go into it completely
cold, but I don't need an hour

long lecture ahead of time either.

There's middle ground for me there.

So I would love, like.

15 minutes of, like, basics, like,
these are the big kind of high

level macro things and then, like,
the little squirrely things we'll

get into when we start playing.

That's, that's my, but that does
not mean that I don't respect the

GMs that we had that did prefer to
I'm going to give you a monologue

Matt: Because that works for them.

AK!: them.

And I.

And I bet there are people at the table.

I mean, that we, I'll, I'll
go ahead and call them out.

Our Daggerheart GM, like, put a lot of
thought into what, into how he explained

it and learned as he went that he had
kind of a mixed bag at the table that

he had some of us who were really,
really familiar with the system and

had played it and had even GMed it.

And then we did have some people
at our table that were completely

fresh, had never played it.

I don't

Matt: never played an RPG before.

AK!: had never, this was
their first day on earth.

They came to us from Mars
and no, just kidding.

They were lovely, lovely people.

And maybe they appreciated the like,
slow, we're going to take our time.

Um, you know, so I, I respect
that, you know, much more than

even if I don't choose that.

And that's, you know, definitely
what we're trying to say here.

When we have conversations about
fairness and respect and stuff like that.

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: is, you know, you can disagree
with someone or something or say,

that's not how I would do it.

But I respect that that's
how your brain works.

And that's how you do it.

Matt: There is, for me, a finite
amount of trust and second chances.

AK!: Yeah, oh, for sure.

Matt: I get to a point, it really, I
mean, you have to be terrible to me for

30 years.

You have to be terrible to me to,

AK!: my stopwatch started yet?

Or?

Matt: You I give many, many, many,
many chances, but eventually I will

say, okay, it's either me, it's either
protecting myself, or, and, uh, for

example, Wizards of the Coast, I don't,
the thing that they've got going for them

is, you know that there's two different

AK!: Camps.

Matt: Camps.

at play.

Well, there's two
different camps, for sure.

And then there's two
different, you know, creators.

at work here.

You've got the people who are
creating the game and designing

the game, and then you've got the
people who are creating the brand and

AK!: hmm.

Mm

Matt: doing a horrific job over
and over and really really abusing

that trust And it's so sad to watch.

Like, that is my biggest takeaway of any
of the Wizards of the Coast Hasbro scandal

is, is why can't someone stop them?

Because it is a finite thing.

And you will, you will lose.

I just don't see how they're going to

AK!: Yeah.

Matt: eventually lose
if they don't watch it.

Because it's not small things.

It's big things.

It's Big, It's big dumb, big, dumb

AK!: dumb things.

And then watching them continuously walk
them back and be like, we didn't know.

And it's like, at what point do you not?

Ask!

Dummies!

Just ask!

Matt: so true.

AK!: All you gotta do is ask!

There are millions!

I can kind of understand for the
smaller creators that may not have the

pool to ask, but that's why there's
kickstarters and alphas and betas

and otherwise, but for something like
Hasbro and Wizards of the Ghosts, ask!

You could very easily put out a survey.

Do you want access to both 2014 and 2024?

Discuss.

And then to constantly,
Oh, we didn't know.

We thought we were so excited.

We got swept away.

No!

Matt: No, I I

AK!: time, y'all.

Matt: No, it's it's a
hundred percent true.

And that's and Because that's so see
through and so ridiculous like there's

no possible way that's where the
respect also starts to erode and And

AK!: What a time to, I'm just going
to keep calling things the golden

age and what a time to be alive.

Because, you know, never before in the
history has the connection between.

Company and consumer
been so immediate, right?

Before we had to wait, you know,
we had to put out press releases

and wait for things to drop and
see how the 1st week of sales did.

And now that everything is digital,
like, I am guessing just from the

microcosm of the communities that I
am a part of that was discussing this.

There was a sweeping cancellation queue.

I know a lot of people who did purely for
show just so their, their cancellation

was part of that queue making Wizards go.

Well, okay.

Okay.

You can, you can have both.

Um, but it's the, I don't ever
fault people for making a mistake.

I don't ever fault people for walking
it back and asking forgiveness,

but the playing dumb part is
wearing on my nerves a little bit.

Matt: I,

AK!: we didn't know.

Matt: I, I do enjoy apologies.

I do enjoy apologies.

I don't I'm not saying that I
have to have one, but it goes

a long way to try to regain the
respect because I make mistakes.

And I apologize for things.

And I feel like I know when I'm wrong,
and if I don't and someone tells me,

I may converse with them, but I'm
not going to, you know, immediately

say, you're wrong, go to hell.

And I have too many people in my
life that, that are like that,

and I don't want that anymore.

I don't want that.

I want, I want to surround myself with
people that can converse, that you,

you can, you can give criticism to, and
they, they, they don't feel Um, attacked,

and there, there's an intelligent
conversation going, and if, if either

one of us does something that hurts the
other's feelings, that there's, there's

like, communication about it, and then
there's apology if necessary, and then,

you know, but, phew, I mean, I'm really
coming out of an age where that is rare.

I don't like it.

AK!: It's Hate on the Boomers time!

Boomers time!

Boomers time!

It's Hate on the Boomers time on ADHD20!

But it's so true!

I mean, because we, we both, I have
a feeling, correct me if I'm wrong,

but I have a feeling we both grew
up in Because I Said So households.

So

Matt: Yes, We

AK!: You know, and, and I think that
that's what led our sweet little

Gen X and Millennial hearts to, why?

Like, because, because I said,
so it's not an effective answer.

Matt: not a good answer at all.

And, and you shouldn't be punished
for asking the why, you know, like,

is there an aspect of my needing
to try to understand, to reach out,

to put myself into the shoes of I
know you're just using this as a

blanket example, but Boomers, right?

I know that that is not true for every
single person, but As a generation As, you

know, Gen X generation, there, there are,
there are certain traits, I think, that

we share as a generation, but, you know,
to, to look and to think about what Baby

Boomer generation grew up with and were
told and, and, you know, the relationships

they have with things and money and,
and being told what to do, you know, and

what not to do and, the things that are
important, I feel like, I don't know, I

feel like I can put myself in those shoes,
at least to the point, but the other

half of it has to be some give and take.

I feel like if I'm able to be empathetic,
that I deserve Some empathy in return.

And that just doesn't always come.

AK!: the most spiritual, philosophical,
and religious people, most intelligent,

wisest people that I've ever
known, one kind of shared trait.

That I see a lot is the notion of if
you're not questioning, fill in the

blank here, you're doing it wrong.

No, you know, like, no priest, no
philosopher wants you to accept

what they are telling you and
just have it spoon fed into you.

If they do that, they're not
worth their, their what's called a

dictator and that's a different kind

of leadership.

Um, Right.

And so I think that, but and your point
about the boomers, I think was beautifully

made that they are a product of the
generation who raised them and they had

their own set of social norms and values.

There comes that word again.

And so that's why there was this just
kind of, like, hierarchy of respect.

And then because of the way that they
were raised, that's how they are,

then they raised us a different way,
and that bred our innate curiosity.

Where like, me saying, but why
isn't me disrespecting you?

It's me trying to involve
you in a conversation.

So I can better understand.

Matt: Yeah.

Yep.

AK!: Um, and that's, that's what always
pushed my buttons was like, that me

questioning is a sign of disrespect.

Um, and I, I now know
as a middle aged woman

that,

Matt: Congrats.

AK!: Thank you, that curiosity
is anything but disrespectful.

Matt: For someone who has never identified
as a Christian, or really belonged

to any official religion of any kind.

I have a lot of friends who do
prescribe to religion, and more than

that, I know a lot of preachers and
ministers and rabbis and every single

one of them share that exact same
thing that you're talking about.

They are always questioning.

And if you, again, I don't
have to agree with you.

I don't have to agree.

But if you can say, either, here's my why.

And, and, and, and speak it
intelligently and clearly.

Or, I'm searching for the why every day.

Either one.

You got my respect.

You've got it, because I think, at
the end of the day, good people are

good people, and I feel like if I
can have a conversation with you

then, then I can respect you, easily.

AK!: Why, Matt?

Why, Such a good, it's
such a good question.

It's such a good question to ask.

Matt: It really

AK!: And whoever decided that it was
a petulant, I mean, but that, like,

going into petulance of it, like people
associate it with toddler behavior.

What are toddlers trying to do?

Understand?

Their brains are literally growing by
the minute and they're trying, you know,

like, they're trying to understand.

And so they ask why a lot.

And I don't think that's a bad thing.

Matt: Mm mm.

AK!: It's maybe annoying, and It,

becomes a game to them at

Matt: yeah, it becomes a game

AK!: they're toddlers.

But, you know, I, I'm, I have no,
I have no problem with, with it.

Matt: But even.

in their playing that game, they are
testing boundaries, which is another

way of trying to figure out the why.

Like, why do my parents get annoyed
if I ask the same thing over and

over and over and over and over?

AK!: Yeah.

The testing of the boundaries
is how we all grow.

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: It's how we find which
boundaries we want to stay in and

which ones we want to explore beyond.

Matt: Yeah.

AK!: Well, I think this is great.

I think this is a good little topic
that we had about finding our why

and I mean, and that's exactly
I think you're, you know, kind

of like driving value is usually
around, like, accessibility, equity,

equality, you know, like, fairness.

I think that you're a
very fair and just person.

Matt: I'm searching for it, at least.

I want, I want to find it.

I want to find the fairness.

You know, I may be chaotic, at times,
and maybe that's even more, You know,

personal than, than outwardly chaotic.

But.

AK!: and

Matt: I am trying to find
the good in everybody.

I'm trying to find the good.

I'm trying to

AK!: You

know,

Matt: that balance

AK!: We focus on the things that we can.

Um, so

Matt: Yeah.

yay.

AK!: not fair how much fun
I have doing this podcast

Matt: I know.

I know.

It's true.

It's not fair.

AK!: but it sure is

Matt: But I respect it.

AK!: I respect it.

Matt: And every, every single time
I wonder why this podcast exists.

Uh, we do a, we do an episode of it
and I, and I remember why, so how nice,

AK!: And I think our community
thinks the same thing and then they

listen to it and they're like, oh,

Matt: yeah.

Uh, our community also thinks
that we should end this podcast

in, in, a definitive way.

AK!: It's over.

Matt: It's over.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

AK!: I'm down for that.

Matt: Great, great.

AK!: Crash on every boy.

Matt: ha ha ha ha.

AK!: Cerebellum'd.

Could you throw me a juice box?

Maybe a Lunchable?

Matt: Oh my

AK!: That's one of them.

Cerebellum'd.

Arrow'd.

You're doing a great job!

Great job!

Matt: always loved Stuck
him to the heavens.

Stuck him to the heavens.

I'm going this way.

AK!: What's that?

We're just gonna sing
y'all out with Homestar.

Other quotes from now on.

Matt: Oh, man.

Yeah.

AK!: I feel like we need the
like, whatever the ADHD version,

it's never over with ADHD.

It's always just beginning.

So we don't need to say like, it's over.

We need to say like, and
we're just getting started.

We're,

Matt: see you next time.

AK!: scratched the surface.

And so it begins.

Matt: it begins.

Yeah.

Good.

Okay.

AK!: Good talk, everybody.

Matt: Yeah.

Good talking to everybody.

Yeah.

I, we, I really do want to try
to end this one with it's over.

So I'm just going to stop this.