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Matt: Is this episode three?

Alison: Episode three.

Are you ready to record
a podcast with me today?

Matt: Let's record a podcast with you.

Alison: Yay.

Matt: Hashtag podcast.

Hashtag blessed podcast.

Alison: Not, not our podcast.

Hashtag cursed.

Matt: Oh, no.

Alison: .Oh no.

Matt: Eyeball spinning.

I'm in a weird mood today.

Just warning you.

Alison: We are.

Matt: Yeah, it's been a weird week.

But I'm very excited about today's
podcast, of ADHD20, which is a podcast

that tries to find the intersection
between ADHD and role playing

games, oftentimes, D&D, but what?

Alison: Mostly D&D.

Matt: Mostly D&D.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not a,

Alison: Here's the thing.

We want to open the umbrella
to incorporate other RPGs,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Alison: But you have someone here who
is severely anxious about new things.

Matt: Right, I know,

Alison: We'll get there.

I have faith in us.

I am excited about it.

It's just a lot.

You know, we, we did take
some time to take a look at

Pathfinder out of curiosity.

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: Enjoyed that time we spent it.

Just, it's so comfortable
to know what I'm doing,

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Alison: And so the thought of not
knowing what I'm doing again, well,

it triggers a little bit of what
we're gonna talk about today, Matt.

Matt: I was gonna say, it kind of
kind of goes along the lines of what

we, uh, have on the books today.

Alison: Well, but first I need to
hear those two little words that you

like to give us to kick off podcasts.

Matt: Hi, Alison.

Alison: There it is.

And I guess we should probably
roll a couple of d100s.

Matt: s Sss!

Oh yes.

Oh my gosh.

Alison: Let's, let's roll.

All right.

Would you like to go first
or would you like for me to?

Matt: I'll go first.

Why not?

Uh,

Alison: right.

Matt: I rolled an eight.

Alison: Okay.

You and I rolled numbers right
on top of each other this week.

That's fun.

Matt: Whoa.

Alison: I love this question for you.

What's something you
are truly terrible at?

Matt: Wow.

That's amazing.

We haven't gotten this one yet.

How?

What's something you're truly terrible at?

So the 2023, uh, answer is not gonna
start with so many things, right?

That's not true.

Um, what am I truly terrible at?

I am not good.

Well, I'm even getting, I'm
getting better at saying no.

So that's one thing.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

I am truly terrible at sports,
and exercise, to be honest.

Uh, it's not, it's not so much.

I actually kind of have pretty
decent hand eye coordination,

but man, I am not good at sports.

That's why part of this podcast exists is
that I channeled all of that, energy, and

I, I'm a little bit regretful for, uh, of
it a little bit, that if there's one thing

that I kind of wish my parents had done,
they encouraged everything about my life,

that artistic side, the creative side,
the, imagineering , the, the dreaming.

They really, you know, they said I could
be anything I wanted, but I do kind of

wish that they had said, try a sport
because I have such a weird relationship

with exercise it's just not something I, I
just don't have like a background of fun.

I don't have positive history with it.

So is that fair to say?

That's what I'm truly terrible at.

Alison: It's funny that you
say that because I'd like to

tell a quick little story.

You and I and our friend
Fitz went to There it is.

Uh, went axe throwing
together a few months ago.

Fitz and I have both gone axe
throwing multiple times each.

Fitz was even in an axe throwing league
and the guy who's like teaching us how

to do it, you know, they always have
somebody come out and show you the ropes

before they, you know, unleash you.

Fitz and I are throwing and
throwing and we're just not hitting

the board over and over again.

Matt picks up an axe and on the
first throw: bullseye and then

we're all like beginner's luck.

And then he just kept throwing
bangers the whole time.

So I guess that's not athletics
per se, but it is a definite

hand-eye coordination pursuit and
you were instantly stunning at it.

Matt: Yeah, I do, I really do have
a strange, I think that's what I'm

saying is like, I was a skinny kid,
I was awkward, all of those things.

But I think I do have a natural
talent for, especially like the

hand-eye stuff, like throwing a ball
into a basketball hoop or something

like that, like I, I can do that.

I don't know why.

I have no idea why, but it was never
fostered and I never, you know, because

then when I went to school and there
were like sports and teams and all that

stuff, and I just kind of crumbled and
was very unpopular and made fun of.

So it just became, I have such a
negative thing towards all of it that,

Alison: Isn't it interesting
the spectrum that exists?

You just said, you know, you were the
skinny kid and that's why you were

picked on and didn't make the teams.

And I was the fat kid and
that's why I was picked on.

And like, who, who is demanding
perfection at eight years old?

And who do we need to talk
to about this problem?

Because it's absurd.

Matt: I'm hoping that it's different now.

But yeah, it was a rough time.

If anybody has seen, um, Freaks and Geeks

Alison: Yeah.

Matt: You wanna get a good, good
grasp on what my high school and Below

experience was, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

Alison: Uh, I got right
on top of ya, number nine.

Matt: Number nine.

Number nine.

This is not possible.

This is not possible.

Are you kidding me?

Alison: I ha unfortunately, normally I
try to not look at what my question's

gonna be, but because it was right
there next to your, question.

So, dear listeners, uh, my
question today is, Matt?

Matt: Do any of your D&D
characters have ADHD?

Alison: Which is the topic that we

Matt: today's podcast.

Weird.

That's weird.

Alison: That is synchronicity,

the universe saying yes.

So where the door is easily pushed,
right open with no resistance.

That's what you should be giving
the most of your attention.

Matt: I like it.

I like it.

Well, then that means we've got a
good topic for y'all today, folks.

Alison: gotta, we gotta.

Matt: yeah.

Do we even answer that one?

Do we even, I mean, because that's
kind of, it's a spoiler, right?

Stay tuned.

Yeah.

Okay.

Alison: So let's go for like the
lighter fluffier topic first, and

then we will get into the meat of
the episode and directly address.

Don't you worry.

In just a few more minutes, we will in
fact be talking about, uh, which of my

characters I feel like may have ADHD.

Matt: Cannot wait.

Alison: So we have a new favorite word.

Which is neuro spicy.

Still a favorite word by the way.

Um, but I heard a word probably
on TikTok a few weeks ago.

"Dopamining."

So dopamining is the practice of,
uh, doing activities that give you a

maybe necessary little dopamine boost.

And I experienced this for the
first time a few weeks ago.

New year, new me new budget, right?

And, uh, trying desperately
to not spend money.

And I am, you know, one of the ways
that my, lack of impulse control,

comes in a lot is just I spend way too
much money on very unnecessary things.

I have, I have no chill when it comes
to pulling out the old credit card.

So I'm trying to lock it down.

I'm trying to not buy any clothes cause I
have plenty, I'm trying to not, you know,

buy any new tchotchkes or knickknacks or
things for my house cuz I have plenty.

And I was taking down Christmas and
the area where my Christmas tree

was, I was like, maybe I should
do something new with that space.

And so I gave myself a little challenge.

I was like, I can pull any piece
of furniture, any decoration,

anything that I already own to
try and make this space new.

And over the course of the afternoon,
I'm like going through my house

and moving furniture around.

By the way, were you, Matt,
one of those kids that was

constantly rearranging your room?

Because I definitely was,

Matt: Uh, yes.

Uh, yes.

Young Matt did that and,
and, uh, old Matt does that.

Alison: Yep, yep, yep, yep.

But anyways, over the course of
the afternoon I ended up creating

myself a fun little book nook with
a table from somewhere entirely

different and, you know, lighting
from other places in my house and,

you know, and it's so adorable A.

It makes me wanna read more cuz
I have a dedicated space for it.

It also has become like
my meditation chair.

Um, And it's wonderful.

And I realized at the end of that that
I had the same level of joy coursing

through my body that I do is when
I go shopping and get to come home.

And, and I felt, I felt in that moment,
like I had discovered like a little hack,

like do other people know about this?

That maybe you don't
have to spend the money.

Maybe you could just spend the
time breathing new life into

something that you already own.

And that's the exact same effect.

So two part question.

Part one is, Matt, do you have any
dopamining that you'd like to share?

Matt: Yes, in fact, I
have been dopamining.

I, I'm delighted to hear
that this is a real thing.

and okay, Here's my question.

So dopamine means taking what you've got
and mining it for new dopamine, right?

Alison: Not necessarily just taking
part in activities that you know.

So maybe if shopping is how you,
dopamine, you go shopping or you

Matt: Uh,

Alison: Like whatever the activity is.

It doesn't have to be
old, new, or otherwise.

It's the, the act of doing the
thing that you know is gonna

bring you that hit of joy.

Scrolling endlessly through TikTok
is how a lot of people, dopamine.

Matt: I get it.

I get it, But in, in this specific
case, we're saying, how can we

dopamine without, uh, adding to
our credit and spending money?

Well, I've been trying recently
to kind of pair things down,

like, with all of my gear, right?

Cuz now I've got, I've got a "work-work"
side of this office and, and a record

studio, edit side of the office.

And, uh, I feel like the, the edit
studio side of the office, uh, was

kind of getting a little bit intense
and every once in a while things were

just kind of, you know, stop working
because it there was a lot going on.

And I was also using a separate computer
just to, just to record and stuff.

But I thought, well, gosh, maybe
I don't need that computer and

maybe my friend Alison might like
it because it's a good computer.

It's a great computer, and you
could actually use an upgrade.

Um, so my, my problem with dopamine and
dopamining, possibilities happen every

time a new Apple product is released.

There's always a point where I have to
obsess about it and go, okay, gosh, wow.

Do I need this upgrade?

Should I have this upgrade?

I spend hours and hours and hours
and hours and hours of talking myself

into or out of certain things, right?

Uh, so there's a new few products released
that were a solid upgrade, and I was

very excited about them because I was
like, Ooh, well that could be beneficial.

and I was like, Ooh.

And it could also help Alison.

That's a part of me
trying to work through it.

Uh, and so I was like, I'll, I'll do it.

And so you know, I'm selling
you one of my computers.

And then when I went to press the
buy button, I said, wait a minute.

Hold on.

Do I need this right now?

So what I did instead was I dismantled
everything to get your system—a

monitor and a, and a Mac Mini.

That's gonna be so, so
great for you, I think.

so, so, so much quieter,
so much more powerful.

so that's gonna be great.

And I had it all aside.

I was like, okay, great.

Now I have room for something new.

And then I was like, well, What if I
just did without, what if I don't use

two, two monitors in this room and I
only have one here and can I do it all?

And I did.

And I, so everything is a lot simpler.

It's cleaner.

I've got my dice tray ready to
go right at my hand because now I

have room for it cuz there's not
another, something right there.

And, and my laptop, uh, which is
a great laptop, can do it all.

So I'm, I'm just, you know, I
am unplugging to move around.

But I was doing that anyway,
so I've now dopamined myself into

this really lovely new experience,
both in my work and this studio.

And, uh, I don't have to worry about
changing settings on different computers

because that's what I was doing.

And I did a lot of cable management.

cable management is a big
dopamining thing for me.

Alison: So what I'm hearing from you is
that streamlining is dopamining for you.

Matt: Strangely, it is.

I think that my initial, my belief
was, I need to be able to do

this and this and this and this.

And then, over the last year of
actually doing that stuff and seeing

what I actually needed, I was like,
oh wait, no, I can get everything

I need to get done just as well
with a cleaner look and feel.

And it is really nice.

Playing D&D is better.

It's easier.

Less things to plug in and do.

Alison: It did seem like you
were like always futzing.

Matt: Futzing is, is
dopamining for me for sure.

No question.

Futzing is super fun.

Dopamine-y, yes.

Alison: You know, I realized it, I think
we all knew this, but one of my instant

dopamine hits is something you just did.

Matt: Oh,

Alison: The dice rattle, man.

Ah, God yes.

It's why I am a total dice gremlin.

Rolling that dice and, and waiting
expectantly to see, you know, did

I, did I fail or did I succeed?

Is just, it does something.

It tickles my brain in the best of ways.

I love

Matt: Yeah.

Alison: So I am very
curious, uh, those listening.

Uh, I wanna know how you, dopamine,
this has gotta be a thing.

So if, if you, if you don't already
know, like take some time to find out.

It's super fun.

And if you do know, tell us, cuz
I just, I bet that everybody has

different ways that they get that hit.

Matt: Now, here's the thing with
ADHD, this beauty is gonna last

for a, you know, a month or two.

And then we're gonna be like, Hmm,
something else is gonna come out and

we'll be wanting to change things.

And that is okay with us.

So yeah, please everybody send in
your hits of the dopamine persuasion,

Alison: It to us.

All right, well, do you wanna talk
about, now our nice chewy, uh...

Matt: I do.

Alison: How did we get How
did we get to this, this idea?

Um, so I don't know if Matt or I have
ever mentioned this, but we, we play

Dungeons and Dragons together, uh,
a few times a week at this point.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Alison: uh, One might call us obsessed.

So in this campaign, actually
Matt's first campaign, DMing for us.

I started out as a rogue, so rogues
are your little sneaky sneaks.

And then I realized true to true to
type, I missed being a magic caster.

And so I went to Matt and begged and
pleaded, can I please, please multi-class?

Into a bard.

Because I had taken the entertainer
background, and so I had built my

character around somebody who was already,
you know, on the road performing for coin.

Uh, and so it seemed like a natural fit.

Um, and then my rogue-ish archetype, I
had taken arcane trickster, so I already

had a little bit of magic in me, and so
it just, it seemed like the right flex.

But Matt, you don't love multiclassing.

Care to talk about that for a second?

Matt: Yeah, we should explain.

Um, in, In Dungeons and Dragons,
if you think of a class as your

profession, your job, right?

So there are rogues that
Chimerical started off to be.

And then you could have the
job of a fighter or a druid.

Uh, multiclassing is a mechanic
uh, where you start off as a rogue

and then you say, my next level of
experience is going to be in Bard.

I'm gonna be a magic musician.

Right?

And then I might become a fighter.

And look, I'm, I'm very much
aware that part of the reason that

multi-classing drives me nuts as a
Dungeon Master, is that it is triggering

my, internal ADHD, trying very hard
to, to stay focused on something.

And I also just don't, I don't like,
the current Dungeons & Dragons fifth

edition mechanic for multiclassing.

I just don't like the concept of it.

I don't, It doesn't seem realistic to me,
because in D&D it's kind of like I'm doing

this now, uh, now I'm taking a right turn.

Now I'm plant doing this.

Now I'm taking a left turn.

Now I'm, you know, so
it, it frustrates me.

Uh, and I've, I've made that, you
know, apparent to, to the players

in the group, to their frustration.

But to Make Alison happy.

I said, of course Alison, I want
you to have what you want in this

game that we play every week.

I want you to be happy.

So yes, let us, let's
do multiclassing, right?

And so we, you know, I, I'm the kind
of, I'm the kind of game master that

wants to, have like, reasons that
people will make choices in the game.

Meaning...

Why would your character, Chimerical?

Suddenly decide to study
the ways of a Bard?

Why would she go from a thief
background to something else?

And you have, you've had
great reasons for it.

But the other players in the group
have come to me with like, these

major backstories and like these,
very intense reasons why they are

what they are and do what they do.

But you and I have just kind of been
like, you learn something new as a player

and you come to me, I wanna try this.

I'm like, okay, sure
we can, we can do that.

And then the next time we talk about
like, gaining new experience of like, Ooh,

and now I feel like she might do this.

Um, and then we finally, it
finally dawned on us, didn't it?

Because, uh, something happened
recently that, was an in game

extreme event that happened.

And this time Alison came to me
and had a very different feel and a

demonstrative idea for her character.

Suddenly her character was razor
focused on what she wanted to do

next and what she wanted to be.

And at that moment we both went, oh,
Chimerical has ADHD, Chimerical has ADHD.

She's had it all along, and, and
it's just taken this life experience,

this moment to, to both show us that.

Alison: One of the ways I, I'll
give Evan especially a lot of credit

here is, is playing against type.

You know, like, anybody can be
the bard who wanders around and

cracks jokes and strums on their
lute, you know, and that's fun.

And I'm not, I'm not dunking
on people who do that.

but do more, be more.

And so I, I tried to, when I built
Chimerical, you know, even though I

had her with an entertainer background,
I tried to, to come up with different

ways that she could entertain for
coin besides just, you know, open

mic night at the local tavern, right?

Um,

Matt: Right, right.

Alison: And so, you know, kind of
leaning into learning to, you know,

play against type and to take chances.

And so this event that Matt is
referencing was an incredibly sad event.

A a an event in which, Matt has
pushed a, a love theme into , into

this campaign with an NPC.

But I I found myself realizing
I didn't want my character to be

defined exclusively by being lovesick.

Like, that's boring.

That's every romantic comedy
that exists out there.

And so I, I was, it was me trying
to play against type and say, okay,

but what are some more interesting
in character choices I could make?

We've talked about this I think
on the podcast, that anger and

sadness are kind of the low-hanging
fruit of the emotional world.

And so try and find other
reactions, find new different ways.

So that's kind of, that was the spirit
in which I came to Matt and said,

okay, like this thing has happened.

But I don't want her to be defined
by just pining endlessly cuz that's

not gonna be fun for me to play.

And it's not gonna fun for my party
to have to just deal with this

lump who's crying all the time.

And so, yeah, so Matt and I start talking.

We both have this sudden like aha
moment, realizing that the reason

she has changed focuses so many
times is because she has ADHD.

I'll peel the player from
the character for a minute.

It was a real life frustration of Alison's
not necessarily Chimerical's, when I,

I had realized in recent weeks nobody
in the party knew what I was good at.

And so anytime we would come up against
anything where, oh, somebody needs to, you

know, uh, unlock a door or somebody needs
to, do a vibe check on a room everybody

would turn to everybody else in the party.

And that was driving me, Alison,
a little bit crazy because

I'm like, I'm good at that.

But I realized that the way that I was
playing the character, I hadn't, you

know, I don't know if it was a masking
problem, but that was when all of a sudden

I went, oh my God, it's ADHD because I
hadn't let anybody know what I was about.

I had been so focused on being a Jill
of all trades, multi-talented, able

to be proficient, cuz that's what...

you know, a Bard is proficient in
a lot of things, but they're not the

one singular focus for any one thing.

And I think when I verbalized to
you that I was really frustrated

that nobody turned to me in game to
ask me to do these things, that was

when you and I both went, oh no.

And that gave me like the fire in my gut
that you were talking about, to define the

thing that I stand for to make it known.

This is my talent.

This is what you need to rely
on me on before anybody else.

And it's not an ego thing.

I think I'm not doing a great job
of explaining it in a way that

doesn't make it sound all about me.

But in a, in a game, in a
party, you wanna be balanced.

And we've talked about that before.

You know the archetypes, so
you wanna know who to call on.

Matt: So, I think that the thing about
multiclassing, for me, again, the,

that is probably triggering to me is
that even though we strive to hit these

real emotional elements in the game,
like the party has the archetypes and

everybody's moving and doing these things,

Alison: Mm-hmm.

Matt: There's a part of me that
believes that, if you are kind of

a thief and kind of a magic using
bard, then there is a chance that

you're going to experience this.

Because Evan is, Evan's character
is just a monk that is going to

kill someone on the first strike.

And then we've got this druid
and then the healer, they have

focused into being the ones that
do the thing when the time comes.

And you are gonna struggle with that.

You're just, because you're not,
you're not a super powerful bard,

nor are you a super powerful thief.

Right?

And that's, that's a frustration.

And as, as someone with ADHD in real life,
you're gonna actually in game feel this

rejection sensitive dysphoria, right?

Alison: I, I think I've said this before,
probably even on this podcast, where I

have learned more about my disability
from this podcast with you, from our

community, Discord and otherwise, and from
than I ever have from any formal diagnosis

or care plan with a doctor, right?

And one of the things that I never
had even heard of until it's been

within the last six months is RSD:
Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria.

Um, so I'm just gonna read really quickly
from Cleveland Clinic RSD is when you

experience severe emotional pain because
of a failure or feeling rejected.

This condition is linked to ADHD,
and experts suspect it happens due

to differences in brain structure.

Those differences mean your brain can't
regulate rejection related emotions and

behaviors, making them much more intense.

The second that I heard about this
concept I mean, it, it describes

everything that I always am.

Why little tiny things, you
know, that to other people, they

would just kind of brush off and
say like, oh, this is a spat.

We'll, we'll be over it by morning.

I'm like, oh my God, do
you not love me anymore?

Do you not wanna be in my life anymore?

Do you not want anything to do with me?

And it, and it perplexes
my, my friends and family.

But now that I have a name for it,
and that's, you know, so much of what

this journey is all about is giving
things a name, understanding them,

having conversations, and hopefully
eventually, you know, there's some

things that, that we're just gonna
be, and we're, we've talked about this

before, we're not gonna try and fight it.

This is something I'd like to fight.

But it, it explains so much, Matt,
about why at various stages in our

lives, you and I have both been pegged
as overly sensitive or overly dramatic.

And I think, you know, when I,
when I started thinking about this

within the lens of Chimerical,
she was feeling ignored.

She was feeling misunderstood.

She was feeling, you know, uh,
like she was, she would and could

have been labeled at any turn.

These things that she didn't feel she
innately was because she has ADHD.

And coupled that ADHD is RSD.

Matt: Yeah.

I know, I know.

It's so weird.

It's so amazing.

Um,

Alison: Other things that I do just want,
wanna kind of read like, cuz I, I'm not

good enough at this to paraphrase, but
like, I think that these are the important

parts of it that I kind of gleaned.

While rejection is something
people usually don't like.

That's true, nobody loves it.

The negative feelings that come
with RSD are stronger and can

be harder to manage or both.

People with RSD are also more
likely to interpret vague reactions

as rejection and may find it
difficult to control the reactions.

How many times has someone has
innocently brushed me off and I,

I'm like, oh, they're mad at me.

And that's never it.

And usually when I come to them
and say, are you mad at me?

They'll say, what are you talking about?

I, I was busy.

I, I was, I was focused
on the work I was doing.

Um, and then the final.

I know, right?

I was streamlining.

And then kind of the final thing,
and this is getting into the science

of it, is social rejection, even
when it's vague or uncertain, causes

similar brain activity to pain.

So that like we are
inflicted pain upon us.

And that resonates so hard with me that
you just, you know, when you are in

blinding pain, you have a migraine or
you know something is broken and it's

not, it's all that you can focus on.

It's all that you can fixate on
because the neurotransmitters in your

brain are, you know, sending you a
signal that something's not right.

Like, that's why pain exists, right?

And that's what's happening in my
brain structure because of my ADHD.

It's the same reaction as if I
had, you know, twisted my ankle.

It's my brain trying to get my
attention and say, pay attention.

Matt: Right.

Alison: I think that it's really
funny that I had to play D&D

to uncover this in real life.

Matt: I, I do, I do really want to hear
from people who don't experience this

because I, again, we know that there are
elements of this, everybody experiences.

I mean, feelings can get hurt.

It's not like we're saying, oh, we
have the monopoly on hurt feelings.

But it is incredibly difficult to
explain at the, the intensity and the

level of it to the point where, like
you said, we are so unaware and so

the only feedback that we get, that
we, that, that we can go off of our

entire lives is when people go, what?

Why?

Why are you reacting that way?

What?

They literally don't understand
why we are in a full on tailspin.

cuz their, their email was just efficient.

I don't write efficient emails because
I don't like getting efficient emails

cuz I think that they're mad at me.

I know, it's ridiculous.

But that's, a real thing.

And so I would love to hear from
people whose maybe brains are,

are a little less neuro spicy.

That, that, like, what is it like then?

What is it?

Because I just take it
for granted so much.

So yeah, so we're, you know, we're
standing there we're, and we're

like, oh gosh, so this, this major
thing just happened to Chimerical.

We're not gonna make her sad.

We're not gonna make her like
furious, what are we gonna do?

She's gonna get even, how are we
gonna make her get even, right?

Um,

and so you had some really
fun ideas to do that.

And, it, it wasn't that, it's, you
know, it's not gonna change your class

system, your choices up till now.

But what you're saying, which I think is
something that we can apply in our real

lives, is personally I am, I'm proud to
be a jack of all trades, master of none.

I don't like talking about superpowers and
ADHD, but man there is nothing better than

to be able to go into a strange situation.

I did, I did this just Saturday.

We went to this super random, super
last minute gala fundraiser thing.

Didn't know anybody.

Sat down, and I could talk about anything.

I could talk about anything.

That is pretty magical.

So I'm, I'm happy.

I'm happy that I can do that.

That's super fun when, when it happens.

But the, but the flip side is I'm
not going to be a 10th level monk

or a 10th level wildfire druid.

I'm not going to be that focused.

Alison: Yeah, I think that that's,
you know, one of the ways that RSD has

played out in my life has been around
the concept of, of being too much.

And I think that that's kind of coming
from the not feeling like you have

a place that you naturally fit in.

So you keep trying to insert yourself,
you know, in any situation that you can.

And you kind of try to, you learn
how to be everything to everyone.

And I think that this also leads into
a conversation about masking as well.

And I think that that's something
that I dealt with, that I brought

into my character of she was trying
to be everything to everyone and to

your point, not getting anywhere.

Because instead of being at a level
10, she was at two level fives.

Matt: Mm-hmm.

Alison: You know?

And so, and that's where, you know,
once I think, I think as humans, once

we step into our power and embrace it
and say, Fuck it, this is how I am.

Then you stop hearing you're too much.

You know, because then you've
learned to, to channel that power and

that energy into the right places.

and, and that falls away.

It's been years since I've
heard "you're too much".

But I used to hear it a lot and I think
because as I've gotten older, I've grown

more comfortable building the right
boat and making sure the right crew

is on board, like putting your energy
in there, all of the right places.

It all kind of comes back to that.

So, um, RSD is something we have
but barely scratched the surface on.

You know, I think I've told you this
before, Matt, that becoming your friend,

one of the early things is that you always
made me feel seen, heard, and understood

in ways that others before had not.

I think it's because you and I
both have ADHD, so you kind of

naturally knew what I needed.

But like I, I, I think when you begin
to place more people like that in your

life, the RSD can fade away because
you're constantly surrounded by

people who know both how to treat you.

And then you grow that confidence to
not have to have as much validation,

as earlier versions of you required.

Matt: From what I know, I don't know
a whole lot, but from what I know so

far, the, the experience of getting
older is, both accepting things,

but also trying to find that path of
understanding and, and ease maybe where

you're like, I could keep fighting this.

I could keep fighting.

I could fight to be this, there's
lots of things worth fighting for.

But then I think maybe part of wisdom is
that's not worth fighting for anymore.

Just not worth it.

In fact I have, I've been fighting so
hard to be, with this person or to learn

this, that I am ignoring the awesomeness
that has been next to me the whole time.

Right?

Like things like that.

But I love how, I love how we can find
the way that it, it connects to D&D.

I love it when that happens.

Alison: And there's the answer
to the question that I rolled

for, which is still hilarious.

Of all hundred questions I could have
been asked today, it was that one.

Do any of my characters have ADHD?

Most of them probably,
but definitely Chimerical.

Matt: Yeah.

But you would hope so though, right?

You would hope that, like we've
said many times, I think everybody

should play a role playing game.

I think every single human being should,
because it's you as your dream self.

It's you as your best and
your worst all at once.

And, and so when it, you know, when
it, when it actually rears its head in

Chimerical's case, you're like, wow, cool.

That's, that's deep man.

You're experiencing RSD
in real life and in game.

Alison: Well, on that note.

Matt: Well, on that note, thanks for
letting me be in your podcast, Alison.

Alison: Oh, oh oh!

We're turning tables.

Here we are.

You are welcome.

It is a pleasure to
record a podcast with you.

Matt: Thank you.

I see and cherish your RSD.

Alison: The light in me, Namaste-RSD,

Matt: Namaste-RSD.

Alison: My RSD sees and
bows to the RSD in you.

I love it when we devolve.

We have these nice serious heart to
hearts, and then we say things like that.

And that's the way it
is and always will be.

Matt: And always will be.

Amen.

All right, well, I guess until next time.

All the Nightmother's people say:

Alison: Amen.

Bidi Bidi Bidi.

Hello, my friends.

This is Matt.

Just to say, thank you so much for
listening to this freaking podcast.

And I wanted to mention
that it really does help us.

If you leave a review in your podcast or
catcher of choice, it does actually help.

It's strange.

and also that we have a

Matt: patreon.

That you can join for just a,
a couple of dollars a month.

And that really helps us to, you
know, plan this stuff out and, and

to move words and sound bites around.

Like you do.

We also have an incredible Discord
server where everyone is welcome.

Or we talk about all manner of things
related to ADHD and D and D and T V.

All kinds of nerdy things, the
people are so fun and in this

RSD riddled world we live in.

It's just so nice to hang
out with people that.

Got your back.

So please join us.

See you next time.